Yo, I understand that a supercharger is basically a volumetric space multiplier in technical terms. I do understand how they work, and have alot of knowledge of them. What I would like to know (I realize the limitations of underhood space) is why someone hasn't gone to a larger supercharger such as a 6-71 series. I mean, you could spin the thing a ridiculously slow and make the same or more level of boost than a JRSC without creating sooooo much drag. You would have to make or have a local machine shop fabricate the mounts and intake manifold. You could offset the location of the supercharger to create good pulley alignment without having to have a custom endplate/snout. On top of that, for all out race applications, you could run methanol and cool the sh#t out of the airsteam. And MOST of the -71 series superchargers flow very well.
So what I think is that if you have alot of underhood room, and have alot of patience for fabrication, then you could run with most turbo combos. Yes, I do realize that a supercharger will always be a supercharger, but take a look a the AMS Pro Mod qualifying ladders when you feel in doubt, because I have seen new comers with turbo combos come and go. It doesn't matter how much horsepower you can make, because if you're getting your a$$ handed to you on the starting line, then it makes absolutely no difference. However, if you could possibly attain nearly the same horsepower with a blower along with the blowers awesome bottom end attributes, then why have a turbo.
I think that it all boils down to how much under hood space you have, and also, your patience for fabrication. I could be completely wrong here, but I can definitely tell you one thing, that a larger blower has the possibilities of less interupted flow, which in turn makes more power. And the fact that you have to spin a JRSC soooooo fast to be able to get even half-way into the same ballpark as a turbo system makes absolutely ZERO (0, none, nada, nothing, zip, nope, etc.) sense. I don't need to be preached to about theory, because it's very simple.
What do ya'll think? P.S.- I do not intend to bash or underscore Jackson Racing and their approaches to the art of supercharging. So please, don't take this thread or this particular post the wrond way.
The reason why no one has gone to a larger SC is because of the custom fabrication that is involved. JRSCs are designed for a somewhat simple bolt-on application that one could do over a weekend and is meant for daily drivers. There is no way in hell you could custom fabricate an IM, supportive bracketing, etc. and get it tuned in a weekend on a daily driver with a larger SC unless you're Jesse James with the crew of Monster Garage. Cost, complexity, and insecurities are all prohibitive measures for why people don't go larger.
Honda's spin counter clock wise, opposite of most other cars.
The superchargers available for our applications are thus greatly limited.
A bigger blower would be a great idea. Or perhaps a whipple charger. Fab a new drive for the CCW rotation for the bigger blowers and let us know how it works. Actually make two, I'd buy one off of you if it works.
Actually..make 3..I will take one too LOL. But, really like the mod said the custon fab stuff is something only so many people have the talent/patience/money/time/equipment for. Thoughts like yours have crossed my mind but I have little of the before mentioned items.
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SSG, U.S. Army Original TDP member
95 Integra SE
Old JRSC set up 217 WHP, 175 WTQ
New A/C Synapse ramhorn kit 246 WHP, 211 WTQ
I use to have an old like comparing the M90 vs M112 at high rpms and their actual flow rates, but I can't seem to find it now?
If I were to custom make a SC setup, I'd surely look into some of the other types of blowers instead of the eaton ones. But then again, its all about money. And the market for imports just isn't as strong. So we are left with what they are providing us.
Even Comptech's NSX SC setup has switched from the Lysom/Whipple style to the Autorotor style recently.
__________________ An engine is like a penis... Size does matter.
The fact that Honda's do spin counter clockwise is a problem. However, companies such as BDS can and could make easy work of this problem by reversing the rotor pattern.
Problems get in our way sometimes, but companies like BDS make this problem go away really easy. And about the fabrication part of it, just make good measurements and draft a schematic of the design, and then send it to a local fab. shop or send it to someone who makes intake manifolds. When you actually sit down and think about it, it all starts to come together and compiles into a feasible task. You'd be surprised at the number of people in your local area that can fabricate and handle the task at hand for absolutely reasonable prices.
After having a long conversation with the cheif design engineer at BDS, it came clear to me that with either a 4-71 or a 6-71, making 400hp was only a starting point compared to the power that could be made. The other awesome thing about it is that when used in conjunction with alcohol, there is no need for an intercooler. You end up hoping that your engine doesn't get too cold while making boost.
I don't intend to give those who might read this post the notion that this is suited for a street car. I am refering to an all out racecar.
That is where you run into problems. You venture into an area that is really just a closed door. Although it does gives it rewards, it doesn't take you anywhere.
People will want to know how you did it. They will want to have it. The mass will want it. Look at what happend with TOO. Even every now and then we get a newbie member who asks about when the kit will come out?
I have seen a few JRSC kits that have been modified to accept an IC setup. One guy did a custom setup on a heat exchanger sandwiched between his blower and manifold.
Another did the same thing with water cooling. The current kit that pickelteg has is the same principle, but for lots of money if you buy new.So unless you keep it quiet and secret, (which it sounds like it shouldn't from what Im getting from you) then it really is walking up to a brick wall.
But for a race car setup, I'm sure anything is possible considering you have a lot more money than the normal Joe to burn to get the project moving quickly. Its pretty limitless if its a dedicated race only. I wouldn't even start with an eaton blower if it were the case.
__________________ An engine is like a penis... Size does matter.
But it's easy, at least it is on paper. From start to finish, it seems really clear about how to adapt this idea or "old school" technology to a honda engine. Just rotate the other rotor. Basically, all you need is to:
1) Have a blower company such as BDS to make a bearing plate that allows the opposite rotor to be rotated, and then you can spin the thing backwards and create boost for the motor.
2) Then have a manifold fabed.
3) Then, when the supercharger is connected to the manifold, you will need to suspend the entire setup and make almost precise measurements of:
a) the engine pulley size limitations (width, maximum diameter, etc.)
b) the supercharger pulley size limitations (width, maximum diameter, etc.)
c) support brackets to help support the supercharger and manifold
4) Then, we need to take a piece of 0.25" aluminum plate and make an adapter so that we can use either 1 or 2 Honda throttle bodies in place of the carburetor openings on top of the blower. Or you could go the Bill Gates route and have BDS make one for you.
5) Then we need to make sure all of our measurements are correct before having BDS make the pulleys and before a machine shop (or yourself) makes the support brackets.
6) Then we need to figure out how to make Hondata work with methanol (optional) instead of high octane racing fuel so that you won't need an intercooler.
The boost control will be the same as always.
But this is a general idea of some of the things necessary to make this happen. And when it's all said and done, you end up out performing a setup that costed $4000 with a setup that costs just over half of that if done right and sparingly. I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, so don't take this post the wrong way. Just realize that you can make something happen that gives greater benefits. Everything you need is available to you.
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