1st paint job - Need tips/help!

[dr_dohc]

alright folks...this is going to be long so bare with me...i'm going to be doing my first paint job...I've done painting on fenders, spoilers but not a whole car before...fricken finals is finally over so its going to get started...

what i have so far:

1.) 25 gallon air compressor
2.) HVLP gravity fed gun
3.) Gas mask (something like that from car quest) $25
4.) Tons of sand paper
5.) 6 bottles of silicone/wax remover
6.) other stuff to fix dents etc...

This is what i've read (with SHO's help and haynes painting manual):

1.) Wash car with strong dishwashing detergent
2.) clean with wax/silicone remover
3.) sand with 320-400 grid sand paper all over
4.) clean once again with wax/silicone remover
5.) fix imperfections/bondo
6.) clean again with wax/silicone remover
7.) Tape up car to be primered, use double tape, no newspaper
8.) primer the car, etching primer on bare metal
9.) Let it sit a 2 days or so
10.) Wet sand with 400 grid sand paper
11.) Once more with wax/silicone remover
12.) Paint
13.) Clear

This is all the stuff i can think of at the moment...now for questions:

1.) Is there anything else from my materials list that I should have?

2.) Is there any steps from my "to do" list that i may have forgot?

3.) I've heard "primer is primer" from half a dozen people when it comes to painting...they say that I really don't need to buy primer by the gallon and then spray it...SO, I was planning on just using some walmart "sandable" auto primer to prime it and save like $80...is this a good idea? Is primer just primer?

4.) How many layers of primer should i use?

5.) I'm kinda torn between using acurlic enamal, urathane or base/clear coat...acurlic enamal can be baught for $100, Dupont's NASON from car quest for a gallon of paint, gallon of reducer, pint of addative...Duponts Urathane from carquest is an extra $50...Napa's clear/base is $200 for 2 pints of paint, reducer, addative, enough clear coat...

****Which one should I go with? I know the acurlic enamal is going to not shine as much unless you wet sand it and buff it...what about the urathane...i think its suppose to be more durable...I'm just kinda worried about clear/base cus it may be too much for a newbie like me...main thing is i want a SHINE...I know its not gonna look as good as this one but this is kinda like the idea that i would like:

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthre...b=5&o=&fpart=1

give me some ideas...thanks in advance...

[40_Below]

Originally Posted by dr_dohc

alright folks...this is going to be long so bare with me...i'm going to be doing my first paint job...I've done painting on fenders, spoilers but not a whole car before...fricken finals is finally over so its going to get started...

what i have so far:

1.) 25 gallon air compressor
2.) HVLP gravity fed gun
3.) Gas mask (something like that from car quest) $25
4.) Tons of sand paper
5.) 6 bottles of silicone/wax remover
6.) other stuff to fix dents etc...

This is what i've read (with SHO's help and haynes painting manual):

1.) Wash car with strong dishwashing detergent
2.) clean with wax/silicone remover
3.) sand with 320-400 grid sand paper all over
4.) clean once again with wax/silicone remover
5.) fix imperfections/bondo
6.) clean again with wax/silicone remover
7.) Tape up car to be primered, use double tape, no newspaper
8.) primer the car, etching primer on bare metal
9.) Let it sit a 2 days or so
10.) Wet sand with 400 grid sand paper
11.) Once more with wax/silicone remover
12.) Paint
13.) Clear

This is all the stuff i can think of at the moment...now for questions:

1.) Is there anything else from my materials list that I should have?

2.) Is there any steps from my "to do" list that i may have forgot?

3.) I've heard "primer is primer" from half a dozen people when it comes to painting...they say that I really don't need to buy primer by the gallon and then spray it...SO, I was planning on just using some walmart "sandable" auto primer to prime it and save like $80...is this a good idea? Is primer just primer?

4.) How many layers of primer should i use?

5.) I'm kinda torn between using acurlic enamal, urathane or base/clear coat...acurlic enamal can be baught for $100, Dupont's NASON from car quest for a gallon of paint, gallon of reducer, pint of addative...Duponts Urathane from carquest is an extra $50...Napa's clear/base is $200 for 2 pints of paint, reducer, addative, enough clear coat...

****Which one should I go with? I know the acurlic enamal is going to not shine as much unless you wet sand it and buff it...what about the urathane...i think its suppose to be more durable...I'm just kinda worried about clear/base cus it may be too much for a newbie like me...main thing is i want a SHINE...I know its not gonna look as good as this one but this is kinda like the idea that i would like:

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthre...b=5&o=&fpart=1

give me some ideas...thanks in advance...

This may seem a bit garbled but here it goes...

K first, where are you going to paint it? See if you can rent a booth for a few hours from a body shop. You should also pick up a sanding block, a long one, and a small soft block. When prepping your car you need to remove parts from it so paint can go behind them. I suggest at the least, remove your mirrors and mouldings. (Quarter mouldings can be a bitch on a 2dr) You should also take out the headlights, taillights, emblems and bumpers. You can just loosen the door handles and antenna so you can SAND under them. This will keep paint from flaking around them. (Which is why you remove stuff)
You only really need to put primer on bodywork or damaged paint (that has been feathered/sanded) and anywhere you have sanded through the clear/paint. Yes put etching primer on bare metal. You DO NOT need to prime your whole car.
As far as primer goes, if you have a lot of bondo/bodywork on your car I suggest getting some decent primer. At least some cheap laquer primer. If you want to go all out get some nice catalyzed primer. This is the ultime way to go but may run you upward of $150 a gallon. (Including the catalyst)
Rattle can primer just doesn't fill scratches as well as real primer. Certain brands may be incompatable with real automotive paint too.
When you primer bodywork, remember to prime, block, prime, block, prime final sand. Don't hold the block on it'd edge or you'll cut lines in the primer. And if the bodywork is in a curve or contour you may be better off using your hand. (takes practice) You don't need to let your car sit after priming. On the final coat, let it sit overnight. If you sand it too fast, it will not be dry enough, thus drying after you put your paint on top of it and shrinking and sucking back and making a mess.
Also you don't need double sided tape. Just some regular 3m white masking tape. Mask your car carefully. Mask inside the doorjambs too! (Unless you're painting them) Paint will go in there and make your shiny jambs all dull and you'll also get paint on your rubber.
You're right. NO NEWSPAPER. The overspray hits the paper, the INK, and forms a very fine dust. This dust then lands in your nice finish.
This is very important. Before you mask your car, wash it again. Dry it and carefully look for shiny spots in the old paint. Shiny=paint no stick.
Hmm what else. Oh paint.
Buffing Arcylic-synthetic enamel is nearly impossible. (Unless it's a solid color, red, white, black etc) Spraying a metallicy or pearly color with this crap paint is also nearly impossible. You will have a tiger-striped mottely mess. Urethane is DECENT for solid colors, but all in all, Single stage paint is crap. Urethane is not more durable, Base/clear is the most durable, longest lasting, easiest to maintain paint EVER. Spend the extra dough and get base/clear. Spraying base is easy. You don't need to worry about shine, just about coverage and consistency. You want your metallics to be spread evenly. I could seriously type all night about painting. I suggest getting a book. Hmm if you have anymore specific questions, just ask. Sorry if the above does not make sense.

[niceaznboi]

dont get no single stage and enamels i hate them. and make sure u get a primer close to the color u are going to paint the car because some paints are very transparent and will show through if u do not have enough coats. So primer with a dark primers for darker colors and brighter primers for brighter colors. Some times people put dark primers on the whole car to have a tint on the base coats. When painting remember to start on the top of the car and then hood and work your way around. Also take ur time so u dont have any fish eyes everywhere.

[40_Below]

Originally Posted by niceaznboi

dont get no single stage and enamels i hate them. and make sure u get a primer close to the color u are going to paint the car because some paints are very transparent and will show through if u do not have enough coats. So primer with a dark primers for darker colors and brighter primers for brighter colors. Some times people put dark primers on the whole car to have a tint on the base coats. When painting remember to start on the top of the car and then hood and work your way around. Also take ur time so u dont have any fish eyes everywhere.

Actually you will want to spray the car with Sealer right before you paint. This will solve a lot of problems with transparency although yes it is important to use darker/lighter sealer for different colors. Like for dark blues I spray black sealer first, for yellows and oranges I spray whte.

[niceaznboi]

"at least some cheap laquer primer "
Isnt laquer primer illegal to spray now?

[40_Below]

No, at least not here in Utah.

[niceaznboi]

Originally Posted by Evolution_Tuned

No, at least not here in Utah.

probably in texas its illegal cuz the emissions thing also it is illegal to spray non hvlp guns there too.

[dr_dohc]

Evolution_Tuned Quote:
This may seem a bit garbled but here it goes...

K first, where are you going to paint it? See if you can rent a booth for a few hours from a body shop. You should also pick up a sanding block, a long one, and a small soft block. When prepping your car you need to remove parts from it so paint can go behind them. I suggest at the least, remove your mirrors and mouldings. (Quarter mouldings can be a bitch on a 2dr) You should also take out the headlights, taillights, emblems and bumpers. You can just loosen the door handles and antenna so you can SAND under them. This will keep paint from flaking around them. (Which is why you remove stuff)
You only really need to put primer on bodywork or damaged paint (that has been feathered/sanded) and anywhere you have sanded through the clear/paint. Yes put etching primer on bare metal. You DO NOT need to prime your whole car.
As far as primer goes, if you have a lot of bondo/bodywork on your car I suggest getting some decent primer. At least some cheap laquer primer. If you want to go all out get some nice catalyzed primer. This is the ultime way to go but may run you upward of $150 a gallon. (Including the catalyst)
Rattle can primer just doesn't fill scratches as well as real primer. Certain brands may be incompatable with real automotive paint too.
When you primer bodywork, remember to prime, block, prime, block, prime final sand. Don't hold the block on it'd edge or you'll cut lines in the primer. And if the bodywork is in a curve or contour you may be better off using your hand. (takes practice) You don't need to let your car sit after priming. On the final coat, let it sit overnight. If you sand it too fast, it will not be dry enough, thus drying after you put your paint on top of it and shrinking and sucking back and making a mess.
Also you don't need double sided tape. Just some regular 3m white masking tape. Mask your car carefully. Mask inside the doorjambs too! (Unless you're painting them) Paint will go in there and make your shiny jambs all dull and you'll also get paint on your rubber.
You're right. NO NEWSPAPER. The overspray hits the paper, the INK, and forms a very fine dust. This dust then lands in your nice finish.
This is very important. Before you mask your car, wash it again. Dry it and carefully look for shiny spots in the old paint. Shiny=paint no stick.
Hmm what else. Oh paint.
Buffing Arcylic-synthetic enamel is nearly impossible. (Unless it's a solid color, red, white, black etc) Spraying a metallicy or pearly color with this crap paint is also nearly impossible. You will have a tiger-striped mottely mess. Urethane is DECENT for solid colors, but all in all, Single stage paint is crap. Urethane is not more durable, Base/clear is the most durable, longest lasting, easiest to maintain paint EVER. Spend the extra dough and get base/clear. Spraying base is easy. You don't need to worry about shine, just about coverage and consistency. You want your metallics to be spread evenly. I could seriously type all night about painting. I suggest getting a book. Hmm if you have anymore specific questions, just ask. Sorry if the above does not make sense.

Thanks for the reply...now some answers and some more questions:

I am going to make a little tent in the back of my buddies land and paint it...its going to be 14'x24'...I was going to have a small fan so it can act as a suction...thats the plan at least...how much do you think renting a booth is going to cost? is there going to be much of a difference?

Yeah i forgot about the sanding block and stuff...yeah i got that too already...thanks...and yeah, i'm going to be removing amost everything...the tail lights, the head lights, the modings, the emblems, mirrors, door handles, bumpers, antenea etc...I got 4 weeks from now till my 8 week summer term starts so thats basicly all i'm going to be doing...preping, preping and more preping...

So I really, really, really don't need to primer my whole car huh? wow, haven't heard of that one...but i'm sure you've done a ton more painting then i have so i'll take your word for it...

Laquer Primer - CHECK...thats the ones that build up right? I have some of that from work at checker...its like $4 a can for dupi-color...SO, its all about the filling huh? so cheap primer just can't fill as good so thats why you want the good stuff right? ok

QUESTION: What is prime, block, prime, block? What is BLOCK? Maybe i know what it is but haven't heard it by that term...

Yes, i'm going to be using my hands for curved areas...about the double side tape, what i ment to say was use overlap tape over each other to make two layers so paint won't seep through it...

As for the paint, you guys are definitely saying no one-step enamel then...What do you mean I need to worry about coverage and consistancy? Are you saying i need to make sure I get the same amount of layers on each one and the same amount of clear on each? ALSO ==> What do you mean by wanting the metelics to spread evenly? Don't that just happens when you spray? I have read the Haynes manual on painting already...but i know theres probably tips and tricks that people know of that books probably dont' mention...

well, all i need to do now is figure out what paint i want...I want a nice blue color...sort of like the SI Electron Blue, is this metelic? or not?

Any other blue colors that are like the electron blue? not too light, not too dark, and very attention getting?

Thanks for all your help by the way...much appreicated!

[40_Below]

No you don't have to primer your whole car. It is actually a bad idea. (Unless your current paint is in bad shape.) Just spray primer where the bondo/bodywork is, where you have sanded through the clearcoat & paint, and if your current paint is flaking/cracking/peeling/ anywhere, you'll need to feather it out and prime over that. I say "a cheap laquer primer" I mean actual primer you spray from a gun.
You can get a quart of this, it is pretty good primer for the price.
If you Insist on getting a spray can type primer, get a brand that is the same type as the paint you are putting on your car.

When I say prime/block/prime, I mean spray a few coats of primer and let it dry. (For however long it says on can, if you sand it and it balls up, you need to let it dry longer) After it has dried, take your sanding block with some 180 grits sandpaper and sand down the primer. Sand it down until you see the surface underneath start to show through in spots. Do this at least once more and prime it again. The final time is your wetsand, sand it flat and smooth, but don't sand all the way through the primer.
What this does is help create a flater surface, so it doesn't look all wavvy.

When I say coverage and consistency, I mean you need the same amout of color on each surface of the car. You don't want to have light spots all over. With basecoat this is fairly easy because you don't have to worry about shine. The metallics spreading evenly you will need to use the same spray pattern on all of your painted surfaces. You don't want it to look like it has "tiger stripes" This is kind of hard to explain.

Electon Blue Pearl has metallics and pearls. It is a tri-stage paint. A base coat, a mid coat, and clear coat. It would be kind of difficult for a beginner.

[niceaznboi]

I have not used laquer primer yet since its illegal in texas but i heard 20 percent sprayed on evaporates before u can sand. I usually spray only urethane filler primers. i have used duplicolor professional filler primer in a can for 5 bucks. It is quite similiar to the real deal. But i dont reccomend the sandable primer or regular primers in a can. If u do get one in a can then get one that is a high build formula professional filler primer.

[CFactor]

Originally Posted by Evolution_Tuned

No you don't have to primer your whole car. It is actually a bad idea. (Unless your current paint is in bad shape.) Just spray primer where the bondo/bodywork is, where you have sanded through the clearcoat & paint, and if your current paint is flaking/cracking/peeling/ anywhere, you'll need to feather it out and prime over that. I say "a cheap laquer primer" I mean actual primer you spray from a gun.
You can get a quart of this, it is pretty good primer for the price.
If you Insist on getting a spray can type primer, get a brand that is the same type as the paint you are putting on your car.

When I say prime/block/prime, I mean spray a few coats of primer and let it dry. (For however long it says on can, if you sand it and it balls up, you need to let it dry longer) After it has dried, take your sanding block with some 180 grits sandpaper and sand down the primer. Sand it down until you see the surface underneath start to show through in spots. Do this at least once more and prime it again. The final time is your wetsand, sand it flat and smooth, but don't sand all the way through the primer.
What this does is help create a flater surface, so it doesn't look all wavvy.

When I say coverage and consistency, I mean you need the same amout of color on each surface of the car. You don't want to have light spots all over. With basecoat this is fairly easy because you don't have to worry about shine. The metallics spreading evenly you will need to use the same spray pattern on all of your painted surfaces. You don't want it to look like it has "tiger stripes" This is kind of hard to explain.

Electon Blue Pearl has metallics and pearls. It is a tri-stage paint. A base coat, a mid coat, and clear coat. It would be kind of difficult for a beginner.

EBP is a dual stage paint if I am not mistaken. They have the metallic already mixed in with the paint so you just add the stabilizer then spray that. Then you do the pearl then the clear. I may be wrong though.

And the word of the day is MODELING. That is what my man EVO Tuned was talking about - the "tiger stripes" as he put it. What happens with modeling is when you do uneven wet/dry coats. What happens is there is a larger concentration of metallic in a given area making one area stand out more than the other. With electron blue pearl you shouldn't worry as much as a tan or silver with very heavy metallics. Also, the EBP metallic is much mroe sparse than the tri and quad metallic paints (like the MDX's gunmetal color). Still be careful as there will be more silver in some areas than others.

To properly spray a car and prevent modelings, I do about five mist coats over the car. Hold about 8-10 inches away with the pressure turned up to about 35PSI and the fluid control valve (Satajet 3000) to 2 1/2 full rotations. Spray a mist coat over the car to where you can see paint grab onto the car, but it will look very very sparse and very very dry. Then take a tack rag (very sticky rag that removes overspray and debris) and tack off the entire car. Once that is done, repeat the process until the entire car is covered very well.

If modeling does occur, what I usually do is go the opposite way on the entire panel that you were spraying with a mist coat, then go one diagonal ways across the entire panel, then the other diagonal, THEN go over with teh way that the paint was originally modeled with a dust coat. It uses more paint, but chances are that once the paint flows out it will not model, unless it is a severe model.

[kenseth17]

Make sure you drain your compressor before painting. Match the cfm requirements on your spray gun to cfm rating of your compressor to make sure it is big enough. Get plenty of ventilation when spraying catalyzed products, very hazardous stuff. Read up on isocyanates so you know what you are dealing with. Lacquer primer is cheap but can shrink and show sandscratches and rings around bodywork area. Should be left a few weeks before final sanding and painting so its done shrinking. Catalyzed urethane primers are much better. You don't have to prime the whole car, just bodywork areas. You can shoot the whole car with a sealer before spraying the color coats if needed. Many primers can be reduced more and used as a sealer. Get the tech sheets for the products/ paint you buy and follow them. They will tell you how you should use the product. Good luck renting a booth, most shops won't rent out there booth because of insurance and legal reasons. Don't forget tack rags in your list to tack the surface before spraying and to tack the basecoat if using a base/clear paint. Base clear is easier to spray then single stage expecially when spraying a metallic or pearl and is easier to fix small imperfections you get. Stay away from three stage for your first paint job. You have to develop a proper pattern around the car when doing a complete so you don't get dry areas. Everyone has there own way, but i do roof and pillars, quarter, trunk, quarter, back to first side door, other side door, and finish with the front end. Probably more things but thats about it for now.

[40_Below]

Yes Modeling (Mottling) sucks. I had that problem for the longest time.