Which way should I go?

[rawkus2g]

Well, I think I have decided to buy another Manual EX Accord, 94 or 95. I want to use it purely for weekend use, mainly hitting drags in the summer time(real ones) and for just cruising, and a little autocrossing if I can find any around me. Basically the all around sports sedan. Now, after I buy the Accord I was figuring about spending around 10-12K on turning it into a sports sedan. Now, with that amount of money would it be wiser to just build the F22B1 or do the H22A swap. Or is there another swap idea that might be worth looking into. I am willing to do turbo or NA. For autocrossing I assume NA would make it easier to drive as I wouldn't have lag, but for drag I wouldn't have the power. Also I am very interested in the NOS NOzzle setup, or whatever its called. Also, if 10-12k is unrealistic, let me know before I start my project, I don't wanna get halfway there and then start having to buy one little part piece by piece. The car doesn't have to be as reliable as stock, as I already have a stock automatic Accord. But I don't want to have to worry about rebuilding the motor often. Umm, no worries about body kits or any of that. This car will strickly be a sleeper, only lowered, and with some very light weight wheels, probably Centerlines. And don't include the suspension or wheels in cost, just the motor. Thanks a lot.
Dan

[fliplyricist1]

sounds cool....I think your most cost effective route would have to be either building up and fully blueprinting/balancing an h22 and then maybe going nitrous on that, as it will still leave you with some money left over. h22 is the ideal swap and is as direct as you can get...swapping anything else and you're considering some custom fabrication time and extra money spent. You could always go turbo on the f22, but again, the h22 is a better platform to work off of if you ever plan to boost in the future. I knew a kid at HS who turbo'd his h22 and was pushing low 13's on very conservative boost. I'd say go the h22 then decide whether or not you'd want to just build it up or build up w/turbo. NOS really isn't ideal for the track or auto x, and is more for the drag...but turbo you'll always have on tap. With the extra money you can invest in a nice suspension setup to match with the power. good luck.

[rawkus2g]

Thanks for the quick response,

The only thing thats bugging me about the H22A is it being Nikasil coated. To my understanding, if I ever want to go with forged pistons I have to have the block sleeved, and it sounds like a ton of work and cost. Another problem about the swap is I am located in Iowa(why God why). I do have a few people that would help with the swap, no one has ever done this swap before though, and what worries me more is the cost of getting an H22A to me. I have been researching H22A's for a month or so now, and I do know its got a ton of potential if I where to go turbo charged, but those two points above worry me. On the other hand I have been searching and finding very few answers about how much potential is in the F22B1. Seems like with forged pistons, rods, vales, springs, camshaft, and all that jazz I could make some good improvements that bring it up to par with the H22A for around the same cost, while having an easier time doing it (no swap worries, no shipping problems). And I have heard that the F22B1 is a better candidate for turbocharging do to its lower compression, where as the H22A would need a new set of pistons (causing that whole sleeving issue) if I where wanting large gains with turbocharging it.

Two more things. F-Max's site is down, and I can't find a whole lot of information about their turbo kits for the Accord. I know a little about Nos, and a little about N/A, but I know 100 times less about turbos. Is that kit capable of getting a lot of boost out of the turbo. I believe it uses a T3/T4 hybrid.

Last thought, I could have sworn I heard of a DOCH F series 2 liter motor. It had around 200hp. Anyone know anything about this. Is this an actual motor, or some bizarre dream I had? If it is real, is this a good motor to work with as a base for a large power increase. Thanks.

[UltraMagneticAL]

dude, try bustin out w/ a search function. i read thru both your long ass posts and every one of your questions were answered in previous posts :

[rawkus2g]

Originally posted by UltraMagneticAL
dude, try bustin out w/ a search function. i read thru both your long ass posts and every one of your questions were answered in previous posts :

Ok, I am going to be as civilized as possible about this. I respect this forum, and I am aware there are a lot of very knowledgable people here, why else would I ask a question that is going to cost me 10k dollars here. But you, you bother me, a lot. Ultra, the majority of your posts seem to be complaining about no searching, not being 100% in line with the rules of the forum, with not being on topic, ect... I have been searching for answers to my questions, not only here, but Hondatech, H22A.org, and many other resources, why else would I know that the H22A block needs to be sleeved with ductile iron in order to use forged pistons. Why else would I know the F-Max is one of the few, if only company that builds turbo kits for the Accord, and that they use a T3/T4 hybrid. I am not dumb, I am aware that a lot of my questions where probably asked by someone else in the past, but the search feature is a joke. I can't get a detailed answer to my specific question with it, I have to type in F-Max and read through 30+ posts just to find one that relates to my question.
Now, if you don't intend to respond to the questions my thread asks, please refrain from posting in it. I bet you are very knowledgable about this topic, but if you don't want to answer, thats 100% okay with me. But when you post a response like the one above, you reduce the likelyhood of someone with an actual good response from posting and then I have to reask the questions, and you get all pissy again. Thanks a bunch.
Dan

[haccord2.2]

Originally posted by rawkus2g
Thanks for the quick response,

The only thing thats bugging me about the H22A is it being Nikasil coated. To my understanding, if I ever want to go with forged pistons I have to have the block sleeved, and it sounds like a ton of work and cost. Another problem about the swap is I am located in Iowa(why God why). I do have a few people that would help with the swap, no one has ever done this swap before though, and what worries me more is the cost of getting an H22A to me. I have been researching H22A's for a month or so now, and I do know its got a ton of potential if I where to go turbo charged, but those two points above worry me. On the other hand I have been searching and finding very few answers about how much potential is in the F22B1. Seems like with forged pistons, rods, vales, springs, camshaft, and all that jazz I could make some good improvements that bring it up to par with the H22A for around the same cost, while having an easier time doing it (no swap worries, no shipping problems). And I have heard that the F22B1 is a better candidate for turbocharging do to its lower compression, where as the H22A would need a new set of pistons (causing that whole sleeving issue) if I where wanting large gains with turbocharging it.

Two more things. F-Max's site is down, and I can't find a whole lot of information about their turbo kits for the Accord. I know a little about Nos, and a little about N/A, but I know 100 times less about turbos. Is that kit capable of getting a lot of boost out of the turbo. I believe it uses a T3/T4 hybrid.

Last thought, I could have sworn I heard of a DOCH F series 2 liter motor. It had around 200hp. Anyone know anything about this. Is this an actual motor, or some bizarre dream I had? If it is real, is this a good motor to work with as a base for a large power increase. Thanks.

Yes there is a DOHC F series motor it is called a F20b it is used in the Accord SIR-T 200 HP at 7200 rpm and 145 ft lbs at 6600 rpm, and 11.0 Compression ratio. I also live in Iowa and It will not cost you much to get a JDM H22A complete motor and Trany and mounts and every thing needed for the swap. It should run only $2,600.00 Shipped that is what mine is going to cost me, I will just have to wait until I get the rest of my money in my motor account at the bank right know I only have $550 saved. I am going to then swap it in myself and save up some more money and go with a JDM Type S 4 into 1 header with heatshield, and JDM Type S intake manifold and throtle body, and Skunk2 Cams and valve train and ported and polished head, then a Hondata ECU upgrade. Then I will see how I like it. If I was you I wouldn't mess with the F22B1 it would be a waste, I don't think it was every realy meant for performance, so I would just go with a H22A and work from there and you could sleeve it and build it for a turbo and see where that takes you. If you do decide to stay with the F22B1 the F-Max kit uses I think a 7 psi spring and It would up the motor I think around a 100 extra hp, at least that is what F-max says I think if I can remember correctly, I once looked into getting it but have falling in love with the H22A instead. Well good luck, Jordan

[rawkus2g]

Well, I think your post convinced me, JDM H22A, with all sorts of upgrades, keep it NA with direct port Nos for those damned pesky Mustangs that just wanna test me. Give me an email if you want to get together sometime and talk Accords. I bet if I where to do the swap there would probably be only two or three of us who did it in all of Iowa, heh. Thanks for the info.
Dan

[fliplyricist1]

Originally posted by haccord2.2
Yes there is a DOHC F series motor it is called a F20b it is used in the Accord SIR-T 200 HP at 7200 rpm and 145 ft lbs at 6600 rpm, and 11.0 Compression ratio. I also live in Iowa and It will not cost you much to get a JDM H22A complete motor and Trany and mounts and every thing needed for the swap. It should run only $2,600.00 Shipped that is what mine is going to cost me, I will just have to wait until I get the rest of my money in my motor account at the bank right know I only have $550 saved. I am going to then swap it in myself and save up some more money and go with a JDM Type S 4 into 1 header with heatshield, and JDM Type S intake manifold and throtle body, and Skunk2 Cams and valve train and ported and polished head, then a Hondata ECU upgrade. Then I will see how I like it. If I was you I wouldn't mess with the F22B1 it would be a waste, I don't think it was every realy meant for performance, so I would just go with a H22A and work from there and you could sleeve it and build it for a turbo and see where that takes you. If you do decide to stay with the F22B1 the F-Max kit uses I think a 7 psi spring and It would up the motor I think around a 100 extra hp, at least that is what F-max says I think if I can remember correctly, I once looked into getting it but have falling in love with the H22A instead. Well good luck, Jordan

nice info, and yes...the sir engine is beast....why must us Americans always be left out of the performance loop ?

[haccord2.2]

rawkus2g good idea I say go all out on the H22A, and Ya I think there would only be a few of us in Iowa runing a JDM H22A in an Accord, I don't know of anyone around Des Moines at this time that is running the H22A in the Accord, but if there is anyone in Des Moines with a JDM H22A in an Accord I would love to see it run in person.

fliplyricist1 ya doesn't it just suck how we are left out on most of the Good stuff, I feel you buddy, maybe one day we will get to have some good performance around here that would be nice. I wish I could get my hand on the Accord Type R Trany I have heard that was the best trany for the H22, Honda every made.

[fliplyricist1]

Originally posted by haccord2.2
rawkus2g good idea I say go all out on the H22A, and Ya I think there would only be a few of us in Iowa runing a JDM H22A in an Accord, I don't know of anyone around Des Moines at this time that is running the H22A in the Accord, but if there is anyone in Des Moines with a JDM H22A in an Accord I would love to see it run in person.

fliplyricist1 ya doesn't it just suck how we are left out on most of the Good stuff, I feel you buddy, maybe one day we will get to have some good performance around here that would be nice. I wish I could get my hand on the Accord Type R Trany I have heard that was the best trany for the H22, Honda every made.

lol yeah man I definitely hear ya on that...Euro Accord Type R's are just.... :drool: I wonder why we can see the ocassional imported skyline here but no one even thinks to bring the Euro R overseas to pimp it on native soils? To me, that'd be the ultimate show-stopper

[haccord2.2]

Originally posted by fliplyricist1
lol yeah man I definitely hear ya on that...Euro Accord Type R's are just.... :drool: I wonder why we can see the ocassional imported skyline here but no one even thinks to bring the Euro R overseas to pimp it on native soils? To me, that'd be the ultimate show-stopper

Oh yes that would make my day I have noticed that no one seems to bring those over, I wonder why. I know If I had the money I would do it in a heart beat it would be so rare over here I would be like oh droooool, but I know I would be to obsessive with it and never want to drive it because I would just worry about it to much in parking lots, just like I do now.:

[cryogen97]

before you get pissy at Ultra, is your friend. From reading your post, it's obvious you don't have a clear plan for you car yet. Embarking on a 12k project without a clear goal is never a good idea even if you know all the answers. For pure drag, stick with the auto, and build the hell ouf of the f22 and boost as much as you dare. If you actually want to use the car as a daily driver with some balls, then start with an h22 and try a total NA setup, or a supliment it with a tuned FI system. But again, staying NA or going FI is something you need to plan out ahead since the stratagities are completely different.

[rawkus2g]

Well, I decided a while back to go just H22A N/A with a 50 shot of Nos just for the hell of it. But, I mainly asked this question to see if it was more cost effective to go turbo on the F22B, but no one seems to think thats the smartest route. Especially if I want to go with a more all around setup, not just drag. I have also been reading more and more about Hondata, and it seems much much easier to tune a NA car then a turbo car. I am still a newbie, but I am very patient, and I will do my job right. I realize the NA tuning isn't 'easy' but it definetly something I am more capable of then with a turbo.

And Cryogen, I first came here because of a link from your site, but I would let Ultra do his own talking. I am not mad at you, or him, but damn, why can't a question be asked more then once? Are we too lazy that we can't repeat ourselves? We all probably spend to much time on the computer anyways, so I know we are all a little lazy, but so lazy we can't even type?

I may be new here, but I am not new to forums. If your interested in car audio check out www.soundillusions.net. That site is a flame free board. I have never heard of people saying that, hey, I know the answer to your question, but I think you need to get off your lazy ass and search for your damned self. But wait a minute, I have no clue what you searched for, or what research you have done, I will just assume you a lazy dumb newbie.

And one last thing, if you join a forum, you probably do it to learn things, but as we learn things, we must teach. Knowledge is best when shared.... Think about it.
Dan