As the title says; Im interested in building an h22 engine to handle high boost and run race gas when needed. I've done research and know that the ringlands and the cylinder walls on the h22a4(97-01) are weak and in order to have a suitable motor to boost safely and reliably, the engine block must be sleeved and fordged internals must be put in.
I further looked into the deck design on my motor, a 2000 h22a4. It has an open deck design which has the thin sleeves free standing in the cylinders. As I've heard, having an open deck is not a prime choice for high boost and would be better with a closed deck. The h22a1, found in the 92 - 96 2.2 Vtec Preludes are closed deck.
Now, to build a so called "bullet proof" block, would it be better for me to purchase a h22a1 open deck block, sleeve it and build it? I've heard that it doesn't matter if the block is open deck or closed deck, as long as it is sleeved, built, and tuned properly, it will be fine. But im lookin to build a very strong and reliable block for a turbo application.
Which would be a better choice?
Any information on open deck/closed deck blocks is needed.
Any information comparing the h22a1 and h22a4 in boost applications would be helpful.
just buy a dart block. And its not the cylinder walls that are weak. Its the piston ringlands. The only thing bad about the cylinder walls is that they are fiberreinforced metal. To this date there isnt a "reputable" forged piston besides the JUN piston that can be dropped in without sleeving the block. But for the money you pay for a JUN piston, you could have a sleeved blocked.
Last time I check, Dart did not make a block for any H series, only B series. I searched around a bit more and found that closed deck blocks do have a problem; overheating. Because the deck is closed and not exposed to or to as much water jackets compared an open deck block, problems arising from overheating is the main problem with closed deck applications. So, I've heard open deck arent good choices because they cant handle high boost combined with race gas that can cause slipping of coolant into the motor (or something along those lines), and closed deck blocks can overheat too fast. I've seen a great deal of built h22a1 and h22a4, so im presumming as long as you properly sleeve, build, and tune correctly, there shouldnt be any problems.
If your building a motor like you say your going to. That is, a full race motor, then the your best bet is to not cheap out. A solid deck sleeve is a nice thing to have, but the strength in a open deck sleeve can be just as good, depending on the power your looking for. I personally prefer a solid deck design, but ive see open deck designs running 600 to 700whp on race gas. Just do some research before you do anymajor purchases on the bottom, see what problems people have ran into with that perticular sleeve, or piston or rod. There is a lot of good products out there and its not in my interest to tell you what to buy. Just make your power and reliability goals. And MAKE SURE you get a confident tune done by a respectable tuner. theres nothing worse then building a 10grand motor and not spending the extra 600 to have it properly tuned so your confident when you drive it.. too many times ive seen cars running a chip on race gas at 35lbs with a/f of 13.5s. it makes me cringe.
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Last time I check, Dart did not make a block for any H series, only B series. I searched around a bit more and found that closed deck blocks do have a problem; overheating. Because the deck is closed and not exposed to or to as much water jackets compared an open deck block, problems arising from overheating is the main problem with closed deck applications. So, I've heard open deck arent good choices because they cant handle high boost combined with race gas that can cause slipping of coolant into the motor (or something along those lines), and closed deck blocks can overheat too fast. I've seen a great deal of built h22a1 and h22a4, so im presumming as long as you properly sleeve, build, and tune correctly, there shouldnt be any problems.
I know H22's better than anyone I have spoken with. I have built some of the most complicated versions of them.
there are no overheating problems between the open and closed deck blocks.
coolant flow is governed/managed/restricted by the headgasket openings. This is done to not have cold or hot spots in the block.
just buy a dart block. And its not the cylinder walls that are weak. Its the piston ringlands. The only thing bad about the cylinder walls is that they are fiberreinforced metal. To this date there isnt a "reputable" forged piston besides the JUN piston that can be dropped in without sleeving the block. But for the money you pay for a JUN piston, you could have a sleeved blocked.
There is distortion is the FRM walls when highly pressureized.
Prelude, S2000 and NSX use them.
2618 Forged Aluminum pistons are the strongest and must be used in a sleeved block.
As the title says; Im interested in building an h22 engine to handle high boost and run race gas when needed. I've done research and know that the ringlands and the cylinder walls on the h22a4(97-01) are weak and in order to have a suitable motor to boost safely and reliably, the engine block must be sleeved and fordged internals must be put in.
I further looked into the deck design on my motor, a 2000 h22a4. It has an open deck design which has the thin sleeves free standing in the cylinders. As I've heard, having an open deck is not a prime choice for high boost and would be better with a closed deck. The h22a1, found in the 92 - 96 2.2 Vtec Preludes are closed deck.
Now, to build a so called "bullet proof" block, would it be better for me to purchase a h22a1 open deck block, sleeve it and build it? I've heard that it doesn't matter if the block is open deck or closed deck, as long as it is sleeved, built, and tuned properly, it will be fine. But im lookin to build a very strong and reliable block for a turbo application.
Which would be a better choice?
Any information on open deck/closed deck blocks is needed.
Any information comparing the h22a1 and h22a4 in boost applications would be helpful.
Thanks.
BY nature the closed deck block has a somewhat stiffer deck to begin with.
step decked sleeves is the way to go, done "properly"
step deck
We have had great success with open decks as well, we do not hammer in a 'block guard", we cnc machine the outside of the sleeves and cnc machine the block and install a counterbored intergrated plate to close of the deck....standard procedure for us in every open deck blocks.
Our raised deck blocks, used in our long rod engines and big H27 (92mm bore) engines are based on the open deck block.
sorry i typed the wrong thing...yeah im wrong about the block but DARTON makes iron ductile sleeves...which in the end i am right.
I stopped a long time ago trying to be "right".
I try to be accurate, and I am not perfect by any means.
Dart and Darton are 2 different companies. Its not accurate to say they are the same.
Darton sleeves does not make blocks and Dart do not make sleeves, as far as I know.
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Frank... Did I read that right? In the post above with your tall deck blocks that on the h27 you used an 82mm bore....!? I am guessing that is not what you meant...
__________________ RLZ ENGINEering & RMF.... what a good combo!
Frank... Did I read that right? In the post above with your tall deck blocks that on the h27 you used an 82mm bore....!? I am guessing that is not what you meant...
I am sorry, that was a typo.......the big bore blocks have a 92mm bore N/A.
the 92mm bore can take mild boost 5-7 psi.
93 mm is squeezable for N/A race only use..
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