torque is irrelevant. while i can put 170 lb ft of torque on a breaker bar with my arm, that doesnt mean that my arm turning a wheel is going to be faster than a b16. the b16 is faster because it applies its torque at 8k+rpm while the LS makes its torque, though slightly higher, at the speed of my arm turning a breaker bar(but slower rotation.) the b16 makes more power and is faster. given you will have to rev high to get that power, you will only be in the high revs when racing anyways. everybody says a b18/si tranny will own a b16 but it makes 0 sense. if it makes so much tq and has such a wide powerband, why does it need shorter gearing? wouldnt you want to spend more time in your powerband and less time shifting? any LS/trans combo will lose to a b16. b18b has a severe power loss after 5800/6kish.
i'll disagree wiht you. torque is directly related to accleration. if you get your torque sooner and flatter it will be more responsive. torque is what moves the mass and hp is more related to top speed. if torque doesn't mean anything why does a 2004 eco cavy with 140 hp out accelerate the 160 em1 si in the 1/4 by over half a second. both cars weight the same weight. it depends on the application. if you want a track car that loves the upper rpms than the b16 is your motor. if you want a car that's more fun on the street go wiht the b18b because you can't take advantage of the b16's powerband. but an if two civic hatches go against each other in the 1/4 and both weigh the same and have the same tranny but one has a b16 and the other a b18b. the b18 would spank the shit out of it just because of it's torque band coming on sooner. b16 is all topend.
__________________ kevin (superbacon mod) anally raped mattliston...twice....sideways....without lube causing him almost to bleed to death....while roger filmed and Dom masturbated to them all
Wait a Cavy can hang with a Type S? I think not. We all know how you like to bash the b16 and you think itis overated, but for the price (if you are on a budget and don't have hook ups) the b16 is a good option. I will agree the b18a/b is a good option and has more potential due to the fact it has slightly better displacement, but the tranny is what kills it.
__________________
00 Civic Si Stolen 2-20-05
2004 SRT-4 (traded in for the Durango)
2004 Durango SLT
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart
On his birthday, Chuck Norris randomly selects one lucky child to be thrown into the sun.
Wait a Cavy can hang with a Type S? I think not. We all know how you like to bash the b16 and you think itis overated, but for the price (if you are on a budget and don't have hook ups) the b16 is a good option. I will agree the b18a/b is a good option and has more potential due to the fact it has slightly better displacement, but the tranny is what kills it.
you can find b18b's for cheap. Whereas b16's, ppl are always trying to get more than they are worth.
AND, wouldn't the b16 eventually catch up bc of it's top speed compared to the b18b with an si tranny? (in the quarter mile) On the street I can see it getting whipped all day....
post me some trusty links to the cavaliers+ep3 1/4 times. not saying you're wrong, but i would like some assurance. and some torque numbers on the cavi's 2.4 and the civic's crap k20 model with 160hp. i forget which k20a2/k20a3 is the shit one and which is good.
torque is important, yes, but the b16 spins that torque MUCH faster than a LS can, hence the reason it makes more power and even if the LS takes it off the line because of low end torque, the b16 would catch it by the end of 2nd due to its high end power. who cares if it has no low end, you're only in the high rpms when racing anyways.
somebody answer me:
why would you want to use a shorter geared transmission if the b18b has such a fat and torquey powerband? wouldnt you want to spend more time in that powerband and less time shifting?
__________________
'90 crx Si
D16Z6, arp rod bolts, OBD1 conversion/chipped P28, Comp cam, b16 throttle body, intake, JR Supercharger@8.5 psi, 3.2' blower pulley, crank pulley upgrade, dsm 450s, Hondata IM gasket, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, 4-2-1 header, 2.5' catless MSPi exhaust, tuned via CROME Pro, 6 puck, 8lb fidanza flywheel, b&m shortshifter, catch can, autometer..=170whp/145wtq MY VIDEO(old setup)
would you rather have a LS than a GSR motor? the LS makes more torque(quoting www.hmotorsonline.com). yet, it will be smoked by the b18c. why? the bottom end is built to rev higher, and revving higher applies that tq at faster speeds, which means more whp, and thus the reason the b18c is a superior/faster motor. the gsr transmission is geared longer than a b16 trans so that removes the transmission argument everybody is getting their pants in a bunch about.
so which would you rather have? more torque or a faster car?
__________________
'90 crx Si
D16Z6, arp rod bolts, OBD1 conversion/chipped P28, Comp cam, b16 throttle body, intake, JR Supercharger@8.5 psi, 3.2' blower pulley, crank pulley upgrade, dsm 450s, Hondata IM gasket, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, 4-2-1 header, 2.5' catless MSPi exhaust, tuned via CROME Pro, 6 puck, 8lb fidanza flywheel, b&m shortshifter, catch can, autometer..=170whp/145wtq MY VIDEO(old setup)
would you rather have a LS than a GSR motor? the LS makes more torque(quoting www.hmotorsonline.com). yet, it will be smoked by the b18c. why? the bottom end is built to rev higher, and revving higher applies that tq at faster speeds, which means more whp, and thus the reason the b18c is a superior/faster motor. the gsr transmission is geared longer than a b16 trans so that removes the transmission argument everybody is getting their pants in a bunch about.
so which would you rather have? more torque or a faster car?
the gearing of a gsr tranny may be longer, but it makes more power and more torque...making it the "better" motor. The ls motor doesn't have high end power (vtec) so it utilizes it's power throughout the entire powerband. I'd say if you couldn't afford a gsr swap, the swap of choice would then have to be the b18b.
Also, I'm at work and I can't get on hmotors' website to see what the numbers are that they provide.
First of all, you'd need a b18a for it to be coresponding obd with the rex. And going up against a b20 with nitrous, i'd see if i could piece together a quality turbo setup for $1500.
would you rather have a LS than a GSR motor? the LS makes more torque(quoting www.hmotorsonline.com). yet, it will be smoked by the b18c. why? the bottom end is built to rev higher, and revving higher applies that tq at faster speeds, which means more whp, and thus the reason the b18c is a superior/faster motor. the gsr transmission is geared longer than a b16 trans so that removes the transmission argument everybody is getting their pants in a bunch about.
so which would you rather have? more torque or a faster car?
of course they have more topend. but if they have the same tranny the ls will more than keep up wiht the b18c1 in the 1/4 mile. the ls keeps up with the gsr till the middle of third because of gearing. but the b16 has no torque at all. serioulsy about 90 to the wheels. if i had to choose between b18c1 and b18b of course i would take the c1. but if i had to pick between the b16 over a b18b. i would depend on the application. b16 is very overrated. it makes high hp and is still slower than motors with less hp because it has no torque at all.
__________________ kevin (superbacon mod) anally raped mattliston...twice....sideways....without lube causing him almost to bleed to death....while roger filmed and Dom masturbated to them all
Wait a Cavy can hang with a Type S? I think not. We all know how you like to bash the b16 and you think itis overated, but for the price (if you are on a budget and don't have hook ups) the b16 is a good option. I will agree the b18a/b is a good option and has more potential due to the fact it has slightly better displacement, but the tranny is what kills it.
when did a type s com into this???? we are talking b16's and the em1 si weighs the same as an ecotec cavy and run's high 15's-low 16's. the ecotec cavy has a 140 hp motor and runs mid-low15's. with I/H/E they have run 14.9's. a em1 SI with i/h/e run's a mid 15 tops. b16 for the price you say? you have to mod them to put the on par with other stock motors hence defeating your "price" argument. alot of people argue for the b16 because It "REVS" to the sky and had VTEC. people see what they do on paper and are like omfg that's awesome. there is more to a motor than how high it revs. people think it's the shit because you can throw it in a hatch and run 13's. you can throw almost any motor in a hatch an run 13's.
__________________ kevin (superbacon mod) anally raped mattliston...twice....sideways....without lube causing him almost to bleed to death....while roger filmed and Dom masturbated to them all
ok just to make it simple i have a friend with a b20 hatch on spray fully gutted out and i need to know what way i should go b16 or b18b
fully gutted....that's ridiculous. is this his dd? And by ridiculous, I mean that's
and seeing how he's got a b20 (I'm not figuring in the spray), he'll still have more torque than a b16/b18b....I'm not sure how much hp the b20's got, but it has substantially more tq.
well by gutted i ment rear seats and all that plastic in the rear and rug .so only dash is still inplace and no he drives it probly 3 days or 2 a week and if im correct its like a 20 tor diff between the ls and like 40 from the b16
when did a type s com into this???? we are talking b16's and the em1 si weighs the same as an ecotec cavy and run's high 15's-low 16's. the ecotec cavy has a 140 hp motor and runs mid-low15's. with I/H/E they have run 14.9's. a em1 SI with i/h/e run's a mid 15 tops. b16 for the price you say? you have to mod them to put the on par with other stock motors hence defeating your "price" argument. alot of people argue for the b16 because It "REVS" to the sky and had VTEC. people see what they do on paper and are like omfg that's awesome. there is more to a motor than how high it revs. people think it's the shit because you can throw it in a hatch and run 13's. you can throw almost any motor in a hatch an run 13's.
That's what I was getting at. I ran 15.5 all day with just i/h/e. I brought the Type S in because you basically said the Cavi would run low 15's. And I was talking stock. And no for the price it would cost to build most other engines (non B series) you would def spend more. B series motors are the least expensive motors to build. There is so much stuff out there for them it's ridiculous. Especially the b16a/a2 and b18c1. I have built two b16's and can say I was completely satisfied with my real world results. I will admit if price wasn't an issue I would more than likely go with the b18c1, if I were choosing a b series. But people seem to forget like yourself the b16 is only a 1.6 liter motor. All other motors you talk about have more displacement so your arguement really dosen't hold up. The downside to the b16 today is that most 4 cyl are at least 2 liters or bigger and the technology that goes into them is far superior. So in todays world the b16 has too much to over come. But it is still a good motor. Just not loved by some.
__________________
00 Civic Si Stolen 2-20-05
2004 SRT-4 (traded in for the Durango)
2004 Durango SLT
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart
On his birthday, Chuck Norris randomly selects one lucky child to be thrown into the sun.
well by gutted i ment rear seats and all that plastic in the rear and rug .so only dash is still inplace and no he drives it probly 3 days or 2 a week and if im correct its like a 20 tor diff between the ls and like 40 from the b16
Not sure what you are talking about, but a b16 has 160 bhp/111 ftq and the b18b has 142 bhp/127 ftq and b18c1 has 170 bhp and 121 ftq (USDM)
__________________
00 Civic Si Stolen 2-20-05
2004 SRT-4 (traded in for the Durango)
2004 Durango SLT
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart
On his birthday, Chuck Norris randomly selects one lucky child to be thrown into the sun.
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