Vtec Head on No-Vtec Engine

[Palumbo_Racing]

I've done a search in the forums and couldn't find anything that could answer my questions so I'm started a new thread hoping you guys can help me out.

Recently my CRX 1.5L cracked the head was getting oil in my water and the head gasket is fine. I assume it's the head cracked although externally I couldn't find a crack. I've always heard that aluminum heads aren't worth fixing if they are cracked so I've looked for another head for weeks now. I haven't found any for a decent price till today. My motor is not a vtec but I found a vtec head that is affordable that goes on a 1.5L SOHC. It's a D15B7 head. I believe a friend of mine a while back said something about it but I don't remember for sure. He said that the vtec required something like two extra wires for the ecu or something to allow it to work. It sounds to me like I may have to chance the ecu also to run this head. Main thing I'm asking is can I use this head on my engine for an affordable price or is it a waste of my time?

[Palumbo_Racing]

I've done some more searching typing in different stuff and came up with a few things that might have helped me out. I found out that for sure the ecu is going to have to be changed out. My question is will any vtec 1.6 ecu work or do I need a certain type. I know that there are different types of OBD's and I do believe mine is OBD0 but not 100% positive on that. I have an 1989 Honda CRX with the D15B2. I'm sure if my engine is a OBD0 I'd have to get an OBD0 ecu that will allow my hardness to work. I dunno I'm not really a professional with all this. I'm a muscle car man. I build carborated engines and I just got into this little cars which are a lot of fun. I'm still trying to learn about them and how they all work. I know this car has throttle body injection it's not multi-point or whatever you want to call it where each cylinder has it's own injector.

Main thing I'm asking is what ecu and solenoid should I need and once I have established this is there anyone that has what I need that is selling for a decent price. I'm able to get a D16 or D15 head low miles I know it will fit my block but not sure how the throttle body will handle the vtec. I'm open for any suggestions flaming or whatever you guys want to say. I may ask some stupid questions but every time I search my stupid questions I can't get the answers I'm looking for. So that's why I'm here.

[Palumbo_Racing]

Something else I have considered. I also have an option to buy a DOHC ZC head that should go right on my block it's also D series but it is also a dual overhead cam. Which would mean I'd have to have the cam gears and a new timing belt. From what I gathered on some reading that should be all I need because it's not vtec. If that's the case is there some special belt I need for that application or can I just go into my local parts house and give them the year of a car that had the ZC engine and get that timing belt?

I have a lot of suggestions and I hope you experts can help me out on this. I personally think I'd be the happiest with the ZC head because of the performance gain but I want to hear everyone's thoughts about it.

[anassa]

what you mean is a mini-me, its done very often, mating a SOHC VTEC head with a SOHC nonVTEC block. There is tons of info about minime swaps. I can't read through your posts right now, but i will later today.

[EnJoiThaRex]

Originally Posted by anassa

what you mean is a mini-me, its done very often, mating a SOHC VTEC head with a SOHC nonVTEC block. There is tons of info about minime swaps. I can't read through your posts right now, but i will later today.

Yea i was going to say that but i didn't know if MINI ME specifically referred to an a6 block z6 head. Theres also b2/z6 and b2/y8 or something. I dont know exactly which 1's but your right there are alot.

I'll see if i can find the page for ya

[EnJoiThaRex]

you have a pm5 ecu which is OBD0

General Rue:
OBD0:88-91
OBD1-92-95 (maybe even sooner)
OBd2: 96+

and i think before you go VTEC you may want to do the DPFI to MPFI conversion

[Palumbo_Racing]

Originally Posted by EnJoiThaRex

you have a pm5 ecu which is OBD0

General Rue:
OBD0:88-91
OBD1-92-95 (maybe even sooner)
OBd2: 96+

and i think before you go VTEC you may want to do the DPFI to MPFI conversion

I think I want to skip out on the vtec head altogether and just make the ZC head work. I can get the head and cams for about the same price as the vtec heads are going for and I don't have to change out my ecu or add a solenoid to make it work. It seems like the cheaper way to go not to mention it should bring more power then the vtec.

[EnJoiThaRex]

Originally Posted by Palumbo_Racing

I think I want to skip out on the vtec head altogether and just make the ZC head work. I can get the head and cams for about the same price as the vtec heads are going for and I don't have to change out my ecu or add a solenoid to make it work. It seems like the cheaper way to go not to mention it should bring more power then the vtec.

VTEC is overrated. I dont know about prices but do what you can afford.

[drummingpariah]

Let me pause to clear up some misunderstandings that seem to be forming here.

1. minime refers to any d-series non-vtec block with a vtec head. D-series heads can generally be found for $100 or so. A d16z6 or d16y8 head is the most commonly swapped onto an older d15 or d16 block. Generally, just getting them to run is a pain in the bum, but they're an excellent backyard race project on a low budget.
2. You really can't do anything until you convert to mpfi. Google "dpfi mpfi" and you'll get a nice batch of walkthroughs.
3. The d15b7 is not a vtec motor. It is a newer version of the d15b2, and puts out around 102-105hp. A thinner head gasket coupled with a decent cam and intake manifold should net somewhere around 135 peak hp for around $200 or so. That would be my suggestion, and it'd stay very daily-driveable with decent mpg.
4. The ZC head is easy to go wrong on. There are many different variations, some very difficult to distinguish from each other. Also, finding parts for the ZC can be a nightmare here in the US. If you're dead-set on a DOHC engine, look for a d16a1 out of an older Integra (before b-series motors were installed in them). The subtle differences between the black-top ZC and the d16a1 mean that you'll make about 5hp less, but you'll be able to get the original valvetrain from a local dealer or auto parts store. Personally, I'd say that having my car running correctly comes before having it 'fast' (if 130hp can be considered fast).

Finally, welcome to the Honda world! I'm building a daily driver very similar to what it sounds like your goal is. The difference is, my final plans include installing a subframe into the rear, convert to RWD, and install a 13b (RX7 non-turbo motor) in it. Ambitious? Very, but still probable.

If you want to stay in the carbed world, E-series engines came with carbs in the first-gen CRX. There's a very nice dual-carb Weber kit available for them too. If you're interested in going a route like that (it'd be unique, to say the least!) talk to Anassa. Personally, I'd love to see an E-series in a 2nd-gen CRX.

I'm actually going about things the exact opposite of you (instead of coming FROM carbed motors, I'm going TO carbed motors... I'm in the process of tearing down my 327ci SBC at the moment), so I'll answer your little engine questions if you'll answer my big engine questions.

In any event, good luck, and take lots of pictures!

[anassa]

Originally Posted by drummingpariah

Let me pause to clear up some misunderstandings that seem to be forming here.

1. minime refers to any d-series non-vtec block with a vtec head. D-series heads can generally be found for $100 or so. A d16z6 or d16y8 head is the most commonly swapped onto an older d15 or d16 block. Generally, just getting them to run is a pain in the bum, but they're an excellent backyard race project on a low budget.
2. You really can't do anything until you convert to mpfi. Google "dpfi mpfi" and you'll get a nice batch of walkthroughs.
3. The d15b7 is not a vtec motor. It is a newer version of the d15b2, and puts out around 102-105hp. A thinner head gasket coupled with a decent cam and intake manifold should net somewhere around 135 peak hp for around $200 or so. That would be my suggestion, and it'd stay very daily-driveable with decent mpg.
4. The ZC head is easy to go wrong on. There are many different variations, some very difficult to distinguish from each other. Also, finding parts for the ZC can be a nightmare here in the US. If you're dead-set on a DOHC engine, look for a d16a1 out of an older Integra (before b-series motors were installed in them). The subtle differences between the black-top ZC and the d16a1 mean that you'll make about 5hp less, but you'll be able to get the original valvetrain from a local dealer or auto parts store. Personally, I'd say that having my car running correctly comes before having it 'fast' (if 130hp can be considered fast).

Finally, welcome to the Honda world! I'm building a daily driver very similar to what it sounds like your goal is. The difference is, my final plans include installing a subframe into the rear, convert to RWD, and install a 13b (RX7 non-turbo motor) in it. Ambitious? Very, but still probable.

If you want to stay in the carbed world, E-series engines came with carbs in the first-gen CRX. There's a very nice dual-carb Weber kit available for them too. If you're interested in going a route like that (it'd be unique, to say the least!) talk to Anassa. Personally, I'd love to see an E-series in a 2nd-gen CRX.

I'm actually going about things the exact opposite of you (instead of coming FROM carbed motors, I'm going TO carbed motors... I'm in the process of tearing down my 327ci SBC at the moment), so I'll answer your little engine questions if you'll answer my big engine questions.

In any event, good luck, and take lots of pictures!

ehhhh, i guess i got nothing to add to that, drumming took care of it all, fyi i got still TONS to learn about carbs (well you never stop learning right?). . . some of the guys on RPR are crazy with all the tiny details they know. Anyway it would be cool if someone put a EW in a 2nd gen, especially the old 1.3l carb HF engines, talk about good gas milage

[Palumbo_Racing]

Originally Posted by drummingpariah

Let me pause to clear up some misunderstandings that seem to be forming here.

1. minime refers to any d-series non-vtec block with a vtec head. D-series heads can generally be found for $100 or so. A d16z6 or d16y8 head is the most commonly swapped onto an older d15 or d16 block. Generally, just getting them to run is a pain in the bum, but they're an excellent backyard race project on a low budget.
2. You really can't do anything until you convert to mpfi. Google "dpfi mpfi" and you'll get a nice batch of walkthroughs.
3. The d15b7 is not a vtec motor. It is a newer version of the d15b2, and puts out around 102-105hp. A thinner head gasket coupled with a decent cam and intake manifold should net somewhere around 135 peak hp for around $200 or so. That would be my suggestion, and it'd stay very daily-driveable with decent mpg.
4. The ZC head is easy to go wrong on. There are many different variations, some very difficult to distinguish from each other. Also, finding parts for the ZC can be a nightmare here in the US. If you're dead-set on a DOHC engine, look for a d16a1 out of an older Integra (before b-series motors were installed in them). The subtle differences between the black-top ZC and the d16a1 mean that you'll make about 5hp less, but you'll be able to get the original valvetrain from a local dealer or auto parts store. Personally, I'd say that having my car running correctly comes before having it 'fast' (if 130hp can be considered fast).

Finally, welcome to the Honda world! I'm building a daily driver very similar to what it sounds like your goal is. The difference is, my final plans include installing a subframe into the rear, convert to RWD, and install a 13b (RX7 non-turbo motor) in it. Ambitious? Very, but still probable.

If you want to stay in the carbed world, E-series engines came with carbs in the first-gen CRX. There's a very nice dual-carb Weber kit available for them too. If you're interested in going a route like that (it'd be unique, to say the least!) talk to Anassa. Personally, I'd love to see an E-series in a 2nd-gen CRX.

I'm actually going about things the exact opposite of you (instead of coming FROM carbed motors, I'm going TO carbed motors... I'm in the process of tearing down my 327ci SBC at the moment), so I'll answer your little engine questions if you'll answer my big engine questions.

In any event, good luck, and take lots of pictures!

Honda Civic JDM D15B7 CYLINDER HEAD D15 SOHC Vtec is what the listing is on ebay the guy claims it's vtec and the valve cover even says it weird! I'm not doubting your knowledge because I surely don't know anything about this stuff. I dunno I just know I have a stock engine the head is cracked I need another head. I figure if I'm going to change the head I may as well put a better one on it to maybe gain a little more hp and torque. The little car had some get up and go for only a huge 92 hp lol. I figured by putting a better head on it or something I might get myself a 15 to 20 hp gain or something that would be pretty cool. All I know is I have at most $250 to $300 to spend to get this car going and maybe add a little more kick to it while I'm at it.

By the way I can probably answer just about anything you need to know about that 327. I'm all about Chevy. Thanks to gas prices costing so much to run carbed engines now I have turned to the honda world lol. Where you can still make a fast car and get good mileage. I'm driving a SWB Chevy C-10 with a 4 barrel carbed 350 right now with a 700R4 tranny. Even with the over drive on a long trip I can only pull about 13 mpg with 91 oct. That's my daily driver since the head cracked on my motor. Personally I'm not even 100% sure the head is even cracked. I don't see any cracks externally but I'm sure there is a slim chance that the block is cracked. Getting oil in the water is a bit weird to me. I've had water in my oil plenty of times but then again that's a v8. These little 4 cylinders are designed way different.

[anassa]

Originally Posted by Palumbo_Racing

Honda Civic JDM D15B7 CYLINDER HEAD D15 SOHC Vtec is what the listing is on ebay the guy claims it's vtec and the valve cover even says it weird! I'm not doubting your knowledge because I surely don't know anything about this stuff. I dunno I just know I have a stock engine the head is cracked I need another head. I figure if I'm going to change the head I may as well put a better one on it to maybe gain a little more hp and torque. The little car had some get up and go for only a huge 92 hp lol. I figured by putting a better head on it or something I might get myself a 15 to 20 hp gain or something that would be pretty cool. All I know is I have at most $250 to $300 to spend to get this car going and maybe add a little more kick to it while I'm at it.

By the way I can probably answer just about anything you need to know about that 327. I'm all about Chevy. Thanks to gas prices costing so much to run carbed engines now I have turned to the honda world lol. Where you can still make a fast car and get good mileage. I'm driving a SWB Chevy C-10 with a 4 barrel carbed 350 right now with a 700R4 tranny. Even with the over drive on a long trip I can only pull about 13 mpg with 91 oct. That's my daily driver since the head cracked on my motor. Personally I'm not even 100% sure the head is even cracked. I don't see any cracks externally but I'm sure there is a slim chance that the block is cracked. Getting oil in the water is a bit weird to me. I've had water in my oil plenty of times but then again that's a v8. These little 4 cylinders are designed way different.

I think the listing you mean is this one: eBay Motors: Honda Civic JDM D15B7 CYLINDER HEAD D15 SOHC Vtec (item 220220351417 end time Jul-02-08 14:33:54 PDT) The listing is wrong, thats not a VTEC head, the valve cover is probably from a D16y8, it dosn't have a VTEC solonied, also he says JDM, but thats not possible if its a D15B7 considering JDM motors don't have numbers after the 2nd letter. That listing is totally wrong. This is more like what you are looking for:
eBay Motors: sohc vtec head mini me d16z6 d16 p08 v-tec obd1 civic (item 140240408016 end time Jun-17-08 14:50:46 PDT)
I forgot if you have a DX or HF, if you have a DX you will need to convert to MPFI (as said before) if possible convert to OBD1 and use a P28 ECU (the ECU will also be very handy incase you ever want to do any engine building and tuning, as they are the most popular ECU to chip, so it will be also more expensive) its no necessary . . . i'm sure drumming covered it. and i still havn't read the first three posts . blah

[anassa]

Originally Posted by Palumbo_Racing

Something else I have considered. I also have an option to buy a DOHC ZC head that should go right on my block it's also D series but it is also a dual overhead cam. Which would mean I'd have to have the cam gears and a new timing belt. From what I gathered on some reading that should be all I need because it's not vtec. If that's the case is there some special belt I need for that application or can I just go into my local parts house and give them the year of a car that had the ZC engine and get that timing belt?

I have a lot of suggestions and I hope you experts can help me out on this. I personally think I'd be the happiest with the ZC head because of the performance gain but I want to hear everyone's thoughts about it.

Since you have a D15b2 (finally i read the first posts) you can't mate the DOHC ZC head onto the SOHC block. Here is a write up on swapping the head:
***D16 Mini Me Swap Write Up*** - JDM Universe.com

It uses a D16y8 instead of D16z6, and different block but the procedure is about the same.

Another one:
<tt>My Mini-Me Info Page</tt>

This is a nice cheap setup that will be fun to drive:
-D15B VTEC head (note that there is no number after the B, and that its an VTEC engine, there are D15b's out there but for more power you want the VTEC version)

- Or if you can't find the full head mabye just the camshaft for the D15B VTEC engine, as its the most aggressive stock D16/15 camshaft, coparable to a some street Zex cam, forgot which though.

- Use the D16y8 manifold as its the best flowing stock mani of all the D series.

- Use the D16a1/ DOHC ZC pistons (P29 pistons or PM7 - same thing) this will give a nice bump in compression . . . but then you will have to run 91 oct, so its probably not worth it, depends on you.

- oh and D16 ARP rodbolts are highly recommended.

There are alot of choices for a cheap SOHC setup that are fun, good luck and keep us updated.