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Old 11-28-2005, 12:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Next 911 Turbo to feature Variable Turbine Geometry

Quote:
100 Years of Turbocharger – Porsche, Driving Force in Development


The very concept of turbocharger technology is linked inseparably with the name Porsche and the Porsche brand. It was back in October 1974 that the German sports car manufacturer from Stuttgart launched the world's first series production sports car with an exhaust gas turbocharger. And ever since, every new generation of the Porsche 911 Turbo has fascinated enthusiasts the world over with a special highlight in technology: the intercooler, bi-turbo, VarioCam Plus, as well as the title "Cleanest Car in the World" have all set the benchmark in turbocharger development. Now the highlight of the next generation of the Porsche Turbo is spelt out clearly in three powerful letters: VTG.

Introducing the new model, Porsche will be presenting the world's first turbocharged gasoline engine with variable turbine geometry (VTG). This technology featured in turbocharged diesels since the '90s ensures a significant improvement of engine flexibility and acceleration particularly at low engine speeds. So far, however, much higher exhaust gas temperature of up to 1000° C in comparison with the turbocharged diesel has always proved to be an insurmountable barrier. But now Porsche has solved this problem in close cooperation with Borg Warner Turbo Systems by using high temperature-resistant materials from space technology wherever required.

The core features of the VTG system are the variable turbine blades guiding the flow of exhaust gas from the engine in exactly the direction required on to the turbine wheel of the exhaust gas turbocharger. The principle of variable turbine geometry thus combines the benefits of a small and large exhaust gas turbocharger all in one – a combination ensuring both very good response and high torque at low engine speeds as well as superior output and high performance at high speeds. And the supreme level of torque is now maintained consistently throughout a much wider speed range.

Source: Germancarfan
Some pics

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Old 11-28-2005, 12:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Now that's impressive. I wondered when somebody would finally put this on a gas engine.
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Old 11-28-2005, 12:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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That is amazing.
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Old 11-28-2005, 12:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan123
Now that's impressive. I wondered when somebody would finally put this on a gas engine.
True.

I think this means the end of the Twin turbo setup on 911's since a single VTG turbo makes up for it.
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Old 11-28-2005, 02:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i can't wait for the technology to become a little less expensive so we can start seeing aftermarket applications and also applications in production cars such as the evo, sti, and srt-4
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Old 11-28-2005, 02:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That is some cool technology. Glad to see it used on production vehicles, no matter how much they may cost.
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Old 11-28-2005, 02:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex33
That is some cool technology. Glad to see it used on production vehicles, no matter how much they may cost.
Cost would probably be offset by the fact that you no longer need an extra turbocharger and additional piping (for the TT setup). I'm sure it's still $$, but that probably brings the cost down somewhat.
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Good point, but it's still a $100k+ car they're applying the cost to, so even though it's not going to go up in price but it's still expensive, lol.
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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its only a matter of time until it becomes part of the honda turbo kits. would be very interesting to see what it will do to the honda bottum end... hmmmm
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It still makes sense for it to be twin turbo, because of the 911's flat 6 engine configuration. On a supra or a skyline, sure.. this would probably make a dual turbo set-up obsolete. Not on an engine with a flat 6. It is possible though, I mean, Subaru flat 4's use only one turbo....
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoe-dar
It still makes sense for it to be twin turbo, because of the 911's flat 6 engine configuration. On a supra or a skyline, sure.. this would probably make a dual turbo set-up obsolete. Not on an engine with a flat 6. It is possible though, I mean, Subaru flat 4's use only one turbo....
I don't think i understood you fully. I'm saying it would make it obsolete because VTG makes better low-end/high-end and less lag possible all in one turbocharger thus voiding the need for a Twin turbo setup with one small and one large turbo. You get the benifits of a TT setup in a single turbo.

So why would they still need a Twin turbo setup if VTG makes this all possible?
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Old 11-28-2005, 09:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Honda already uses variable geometry turbo on the i-CTDi Accord Euro. In fact, Honda VGT had already been used in 1989 JDM Honda Legend. The VGT was dubbed, Wing Turbo.

http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/jan89a.html

Such a shame really because the turbo Legend never took off and was scrapped. Imagine if Honda developed and sold cars with VGT since then... We might never heard of EVO or WRX.
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Old 11-28-2005, 10:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I might sound stupid but...how does this work? I don't get it...
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Old 11-29-2005, 01:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prelude707
I might sound stupid but...how does this work? I don't get it...
Me neither... But here's some info I found on the net,

Variable Geometry video

Description about VGT

Basically, VGT supplies boost depending on the load of the engine, or something like that.
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Old 11-29-2005, 01:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midi_Amp
Honda already uses variable geometry turbo on the i-CTDi Accord Euro. In fact, Honda VGT had already been used in 1989 JDM Honda Legend. The VGT was dubbed, Wing Turbo.

http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/jan89a.html

Such a shame really because the turbo Legend never took off and was scrapped. Imagine if Honda developed and sold cars with VGT since then... We might never heard of EVO or WRX.
VGT has long being used on Diesels.

The 89 VTG turbo legend, was that a production gasoline car? If so, why the hell is Porsche claiming to have the world's first turbocharged gasoline engine with VTG?
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