I wonder what other companies do silent recalls? Seems one involving a fire hazzard should be public in my mind.
Prius problems proliferating.
When Samuel Silverman took his green 2001 Toyota Prius to a West Los Angeles dealership Aug. 23 2005,
he wasn't sure what had caused the master warning light for the hybrid system to turn on.
While the hybrid car was at the dealership that night, a fire started in the rear compartment near the high-voltage battery
and burned through the back seat.
The next morning, mechanics discovered the damage, which his insurance company declared totaled.
Now, more than three months later, Toyota engineers are not sure what caused the fire, although they are still investigating it,
according to officials at the company's U.S. headquarters in Torrance.
Toyota has agreed to cover the totaled Prius, although the company has offered a lot less than Silverman claims it would cost to replace.
Neither party is disputing the circumstances surrounding the fire, only the reimbursement.
Silverman received the used car from his father, Alan, a retired Voice of America broadcaster who is a big fan of the Prius.
That Prius was one of three owned by the family.
The Prius has become an icon of the environmental movement and appreciated by a broad spectrum of of naive consumers.
It is highly favored in the entertainment industry and admired by many aerospace engineers for its technology.
The auto has performed reasonably reliably, despite its many advanced systems.
That's not to say it's perfect, however, because the car's high-voltage battery has had a few glitches.
Toyota adopted a special service campaign — a type of extended warranty that critics sometimes term a silent recall.
Under the campaign, known at Toyota as the 40G program, owners of Prius models from 2001 through 2003 were warned that
the high-voltage battery could leak electrolyte, the liquid that helps create electricity.
The leaks could occur around the positive battery posts; in high humidity, that could cause the high-voltage battery computer to
detect a drop in electrical resistance. If that occurred, the computer would set off the master warning light for the hybrid system.
Toyota had received reports of seven cases of leaking batteries for model years 2001 through 2003. Beginning in August 2004,
it sent letters notifying 48,000 customers about the potential problem. Although Toyota could not say whether more reports of leaks
have been filed, it has not heard of any accidents or other fires.
Samuel Silverman's problems began Aug. 20, when he took the car to the dealership for a leak in the air-conditioning system.
He got the car back on the afternoon of Aug. 23 but never made it home. After noticing that the dashboard had been reinstalled
improperly and that the master warning light was on, he returned the car to the service department.
Toyota engineers are not sure whether the fire in Silverman's car is related to potential leaking electrolyte.
The vehicle had not undergone the 40G service, but dealership paperwork indicates that technicians planned to perform that service,
plus troubleshoot the warning light and fix the dashboard after Silverman returned the car to the service department.
Silverman's vehicle is the older Prius, a smaller platform with a less powerful battery that Toyota offered before 2004.
Not long after the Prius was introduced, Toyota began receiving complaints that the car's battery wasn't holding a charge.
In at least one case in 2002, Toyota agreed to repurchase a Prius from its owner.
Despite such isolated cases, the Prius has a reasonable reputation. However, Toyota's 40G campaign is not widely known.
Alldata does not have a record for the 40G campaign in its database, used by many independent technicians to alert them
about service issues.
A leak in the high-voltage battery is potentially serious. Electrolyte's main component is potassium hydroxide, a potent base
rated as a "high" health hazard by independent laboratories. One measure of the care Toyota tries to exercise over the Prius
is the companys Emergency Response Guide, which has 23 pages of information distributed to emergency service personnel.
Among other issues, a vehicle fire can emit toxic gases.
None of that, however, is at the heart of Silverman's dispute with Toyota.
Rather, his current concerns deal mostly with the fair market value of the vehicle.
Disputes over the value of totaled vehicles are common. Insurers and others often use services that assign a lower value to a
vehicle than the appraisal companies in the used-car industry.
An insurer must pay either the fair market value of a car, backed up by at least two comparable vehicles for sale locally,
or provide a replacement vehicle.
"We asked for their comparisons, but we never got them," Silverman said.
Apart from the money dispute, Silverman says he is disappointed that the issue is being dealt with by the companys
legal department, rather than its technical groups.
Given his apparently misguided dedication to the product, he would like to know what happened, he says.
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2000 V6 5-speed Mustang not stock
2004 V6 5-speed Auto Accord Coupe
Mustang - Vortech SC 10psi, 3.73 gears with Trac-loc, dual-exhaust, phonelic intake spacer, X2C upper and lower rear control arms, KYB AGX front struts. 281HP at the rears.
A lot of liberal news outlets like to push hybrids, so it didnt see as much press as, say, Ford trucks and SUV's rolling over/the Firestone tire disaster...
Another item about hybrids that is supressed is the fact that if they are allowed to sit, without running for 2 weeks, the batteries can discharge and die. Then you need a new battery pack, to the tune of $2800, plus labor. And this also voids the warranty, so you're stuck with the cost.
A lot of liberal news outlets like to push hybrids, so it didnt see as much press as, say, Ford trucks and SUV's rolling over/the Firestone tire disaster...
Another item about hybrids that is supressed is the fact that if they are allowed to sit, without running for 2 weeks, the batteries can discharge and die. Then you need a new battery pack, to the tune of $2800, plus labor. And this also voids the warranty, so you're stuck with the cost.
A lot of liberal news outlets like to push hybrids, so it didnt see as much press as, say, Ford trucks and SUV's rolling over/the Firestone tire disaster...
Another item about hybrids that is supressed is the fact that if they are allowed to sit, without running for 2 weeks, the batteries can discharge and die. Then you need a new battery pack, to the tune of $2800, plus labor. And this also voids the warranty, so you're stuck with the cost.
Isn't that what we have fox news for
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Gone: Blown Integra GSR
Current: Stock Civic ex =(
Hmm, I don't know if I would issue a recall on a single incident that cannot be directly linked or proven to be caused by a battery leaking. Companies don't issue recalls unless there is substantial evidence and more than one incident to prove that there is a defect. The leaking electrolyte is admitted, it is also stated that this leaking would cause a service indicator to turn on, I don't see what all the hubub is about. If you're car has a CEL, say for low oil pressure or missfires and you ignore it and your engine takes a crap, does that mean we need a recall? my car battery sometimes leaks electrolyte and causes corosion around the terminals, does that mean they need to recall my vehicle?
Sounds more like someone is looking chink in the armor of a successfull product simply because its successfull.
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1989 Accord DX Hatch: SOLD 04/99
1999 Civic EX Coupe: STOLEN 05/07
1989 325i 2-door: SOLD
1995 M3: Current
Another item about hybrids that is supressed is the fact that if they are allowed to sit, without running for 2 weeks, the batteries can discharge and die. Then you need a new battery pack, to the tune of $2800, plus labor. And this also voids the warranty, so you're stuck with the cost.
Where did you find that info at?
I did a little searching of my own and found out that it would take the Prius batteries over 2 MONTHS to discharge and I also found this on a review of the Lexus RX 400hx
Quote:
The operating manual that comes with the car does scare us that if the vehicle is left unused for a month or so, the batteries may discharge completely and that we need to call Lexus to get a special jump start.
Another thing is that the hybrid batteries use the same design of normal Nickle-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) batteries we use every day and you don't have to replace the battery in your cell phone, digital camera, MP3 player, etc. if it runs dead.
a number of owners whose batteries were thrashed, then their dreams were thrashed when the dealer looked at the ECU to see how often the car was started so that he could void the warranty.
a number of owners whose batteries were thrashed, then their dreams were thrashed when the dealer looked at the ECU to see how often the car was started so that he could void the warranty.
Two things:
1. The one complaint about the '2 week discharge' is of an older model Prius, the 04+ Prius has a different battery. The new batteries are said to only lose 40% charge per month.
First, the complaints you show are for the 2003 and earlier Prius. The 2004 was totally redesigned in response to consumer feedback and as a result of Toyota research. There is nothing in common between pre- and post 2004 Prius!
Second, the gentleman who is advising people not to buy because the battery may run down in two weeks is doing the car a huge disservice and misrepresenting the facts. ONE model, Package #9, has a remote sensing system that automatically unlocks the car as you approach it. This is what can deplete the battery after about 21 days. Toyota provides a button on the dash to defeat this function for exactly that reason, which is clearly pointed out in the Quick Guide, the owner's manual and by any salesman with any knowledge of the vehicle.
Well if your going to buy a hybrid and drive it so little then you wasted your money anyway. I'm not against them but I feel that in Toyota's case they're using it as a big green brush to say "Look how clean, green and friendly our company is". "We're much better than those other automakers, pay no attention to those SUV's and that big new big truck plant in Texas".
__________________
2000 V6 5-speed Mustang not stock
2004 V6 5-speed Auto Accord Coupe
Mustang - Vortech SC 10psi, 3.73 gears with Trac-loc, dual-exhaust, phonelic intake spacer, X2C upper and lower rear control arms, KYB AGX front struts. 281HP at the rears.
in Toyota's case they're using it as a big green brush to say "Look how clean, green and friendly our company is". "We're much better than those other automakers, pay no attention to those SUV's and that big new big truck plant in Texas".
And is Ford or Honda any better? Both of them push are in on the hybrid craze and both of them have one than one hybrid model. Heck, all the car makers are working on hybrids and yet you say nothing about them making huge SUVs (the Big 3) that are much larger than anything made by Toyota.
And is Ford or Honda any better? Both of them push are in on the hybrid craze and both of them have one than one hybrid model. Heck, all the car makers are working on hybrids and yet you say nothing about them making huge SUVs (the Big 3) that are much larger than anything made by Toyota.
Just a bunch of Toyota haters
Good points, but these companies are simply responding to Toyota. I had nothing against Toyota until this year when they discontinued the Celica, and, much more importantly, the MR2-S. That REALLY pissed me off.
And if you dont think Toyota has anything huge:
The Tundra is every bit as big as an F-150
The 4Runner grows more and more every year
and here's the real kicker...
The LandCruiser, at 192.5 inches and 5390lbs, is nearly as large as the 216-inch, 5505-lb Suburban, yet gets lower gas mileage (13-17 rather than 15-19) and has less carrying capacity. How is that for "green"?
Toytoa makes good, reliable, blah cars. But they're not as green as the Prius makes them look.
Good points, but these companies are simply responding to Toyota. I had nothing against Toyota until this year when they discontinued the Celica, and, much more importantly, the MR2-S. That REALLY pissed me off.
And if you dont think Toyota has anything huge:
The Tundra is every bit as big as an F-150
The 4Runner grows more and more every year
and here's the real kicker...
The LandCruiser, at 192.5 inches and 5390lbs, is nearly as large as the 216-inch, 5505-lb Suburban, yet gets lower gas mileage (13-17 rather than 15-19) and has less carrying capacity. How is that for "green"?
Toytoa makes good, reliable, blah cars. But they're not as green as the Prius makes them look.
So basically you bash Toyota because they stopped making some cars you liked
Ford sells WAY more F150s a year then Toyota sells Tundras.
Every vehicle gets bigger with each new generation. The Civic and Accord are a prime example.
We all know the EPA MPG ratings are full of shit. However, a Land Cruiser would make a Suburban look silly if you took them both off-road.
What about the H1 and H2? I have respect for the off-road capability of the H1, but the H2 is a joke if you really want to talk about MPG.
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