Rockstar: DVD is a Limitation for Xbox 360

[blackdelsol94]

Rockstar: DVD is a Limitation for Xbox 360
In a recent interview Rockstar's Sam Houser noted that the Xbox 360's DVD disc format and lack of a standard hard drive is a problem for Microsoft, which is "going to become more of an issue."
Posted by James Brightman on Wednesday, April 23, 2008


In anticipation of the release of GTA IV, 1UP managed to snag a rare interview with Sam Houser, founder of Rockstar Games. The discussion covers a wide variety of topics, including the evolution of GTA, controversy around the franchise, the possibility of a GTA-based MMO and more.

One of the more interesting comments from Houser came when asked about the technical hurdles. Back in January Rockstar acknowledged that GTA IV was ultimately delayed in large part because of the development difficulties on PS3. But the Xbox 360 has its own set of problems, if you ask Houser.

"Both machines are absolutely fantastic, but they both come with strengths and weaknesses. The strength of the 360 is a very, very accessible, familiar, effective environment to work in. You're making the game from the get-go, everyone understands its PC environment -- boom, off we go. It's pretty good. One of the problems with the 360, and it affects games like Grand Theft Auto if you think about how much content we put in the actual machine, is the fact that they don't have a significantly larger storage medium than the previous systems. It's a slightly bigger DVD disc," he said.

Another problem a number of developers have had to deal with is the fact that a hard drive is not standard in every 360. "That's a complicated one," said Houser. "I met with a bunch of the senior fellows from [Microsoft]. I said, that's kind of complicated.... The upshot of the technical challenges we've experienced on either the 360 or on the PS3 is [that] both companies stepped up to the plate and have supported us in a way that was beyond even my greedy expectations. They've been amazing. I think that the 360 is going to have to get 'round this issue we're talking about. I can think of various ways they can do it. Hopefully, they're going to adopt one of those in the next year or so, because it's going to become more of an issue. If we're filling up the disc right now, where are we going? It's not like our games are going to get any smaller. I think that issue's on the table with a bunch of games right now. I'm sure they'll come through with an intelligent solution."

Houser continued comparing the console differences: "Getting things running on the PS3 initially was challenging. I think it was challenging for a lot of companies, but it's also a machine where, now that we've got comfortable with it -- I don't want to say we've cracked it, but we've got comfortable with it -- we know we can make our games. We're at a point now where the games pretty much look identical side by side. There's a slight difference in the way they look. I think that's to do with really low-level technical stuff that I'm not the guy to explain. The 360 games have a certain look to them; PS3 games have a certain look to them. I like the way [the PS3] renders. There's a certain kind of softness without being blurry -- some warmth to it -- and then there's a certain more clinical element to how the 360 looks. Both have plusses and minuses. As far as I'm concerned, they're neck and neck now. That's very much our goal; we do not want to get in the middle of that rather heated, fervent debate.... These guys who wanna defend their systems, you know what? Good on 'em, and let them do it. We just didn't want to give them something that would in any way fuel it...."

[tha_con]

Say it aint so!!!

Edit: This is false, btw:

One of the more interesting comments from Houser came when asked about the technical hurdles. Back in January Rockstar acknowledged that GTA IV was ultimately delayed in large part because of the development difficulties on PS3. But the Xbox 360 has its own set of problems, if you ask Houser.

It was because the game was incomplete on ALL platforms. Rockstar showed the game off running on 360 in October and it was shit. Skip over at 1up.com confirmed this, as he is one of the few in the industry who has played the game on the 360 then and now, as well as on PS3. He said the game has improved 10 fold over the last few months.

It wasn't a PS3 issue, it was a "our engine really needs work" issue. I really wish there were more intelligent people behind the press for video games (like N'Gai Croal, for instance) instead of these idiots.

[blackdelsol94]

Originally Posted by tha_con

Say it aint so!!!

Edit: This is false, btw:



It was because the game was incomplete on ALL platforms. Rockstar showed the game off running on 360 in October and it was shit. Skip over at 1up.com confirmed this, as he is one of the few in the industry who has played the game on the 360 then and now, as well as on PS3. He said the game has improved 10 fold over the last few months.

It wasn't a PS3 issue, it was a "our engine really needs work" issue. I really wish there were more intelligent people behind the press for video games (like N'Gai Croal, for instance) instead of these idiots.

Link?

[tha_con]

Originally Posted by blackdelsol94

Link?

I'm not going to link you to the minute and podcast number. You can listen to 1up yours yourself. If you don't know, that shit aint my fault. This has been common knowledge to anyone who listens to any kind of videogame related media. There were very few sites spreading the PS3 fudd about it being cause for the delay. If you want to believe that fable you can, but the delay was the engine, and was not console specific.

[blackdelsol94]

Originally Posted by tha_con

I'm not going to link you to the minute and podcast number. You can listen to 1up yours yourself. If you don't know, that shit aint my fault. This has been common knowledge to anyone who listens to any kind of videogame related media. There were very few sites spreading the PS3 fudd about it being cause for the delay. If you want to believe that fable you can, but the delay was the engine, and was not console specific.

IIRC, the news about 'the PS3 holding up GTA4 development' was straight from the developer's mouth, wasn't it? That's not to say, however, that the 360 didn't induce its own fair share of problems...

[tha_con]

Originally Posted by blackdelsol94

IIRC, the news about 'the PS3 holding up GTA4 development' was straight from the developer's mouth, wasn't it? That's not to say, however, that the 360 didn't induce its own fair share of problems...

No, the news about the delay, from TAKE TWO'S MOUTH (aka NOT ROCKSTAR) was the development issues had forced them to delay the game. However, specifics during that press conference were never brought up about any platform.

FROM THAT NEWS it was 'assumed' that it was a PS3 issue.

LATER, however, Rockstar would comment on the delay, citing both a PS3 learning curve and the lack of sufficient space / standard Hard Drive on the 360.

What you wanted to believe, and read, was standard sensationalism, media bullshit. Quotes taken out of context, or partial quotes used to 'write articles'.

[blackdelsol94]

Originally Posted by tha_con

No, the news about the delay, from TAKE TWO'S MOUTH (aka NOT ROCKSTAR) was the development issues had forced them to delay the game. However, specifics during that press conference were never brought up about any platform.

FROM THAT NEWS it was 'assumed' that it was a PS3 issue.

LATER, however, Rockstar would comment on the delay, citing both a PS3 learning curve and the lack of sufficient space / standard Hard Drive on the 360.

What you wanted to believe, and read, was standard sensationalism, media bullshit. Quotes taken out of context, or partial quotes used to 'write articles'.

First of all, such a statement would fall in line with what other developer's have gone on record of saying. That alone doesn't prove anything, but I thought there was a quote from either Rockstar or Take Two in which they specifically cited the PS3 as one of the main causes of the delay? I'm not saying the 360 had nothing to do with it, and perhaps I am wrong, but I thought something along those lines was said at one point?

BTW, the problem with the PS3 was more than a "learning curve..."

[tha_con]

Dude, 'one of' is not THE. I am pointing out that the article seems to point fingers at the PS3 for the reason the game was delayed. The reason it was delayed was because there were extremely negative reactions from the press when it was made playable. The frame rate was an unstable 20fps on the 360. THAT is why it was delayed, ultimately. Even if there was no PS3 version, it STILL would have been delayed.

[blackdelsol94]

Rockstar Games Vice President of Product Development Jeronimo Barrera, direct quotes.

First he said:

"There are technical challenges across the board on both PS3 and 360. Our intention is to create a game that is the same experience on both 360 and PS3."

Then he said:

"The reason it is being delayed is almost strictly technological problems — not problems, but challenges... It's really no surprise to anybody that the PS3 was definitely a contributing factor to that. Now, we're neck and neck. That's not an issue anymore. But back then that was something we were taking into account. That's not to say there's anything wrong with the PS3 version. It's awesome. They're both identical."

So we can safely conclude there were "technical challenges," on both systems. No one "assumed" it was the PS3, it came strait from the horse's mouth. Again, that's not to say the 360 didn't have its own pitfalls!

[tha_con]

Dude, to say the PS3 was one of the 'main' reasons for delay seems to suggest there are more than 2. It's coming out on PS3 and 360. BOTH were the 'main' reason for Delay. Do you REALLY think they'd hold back the 360 version if it was ready, just for the PS3 version? You do realize what kind of position Take 2 has been in right? They would have released it if it was ready.

Unless you think there were other contributing factors besides technical difficulties with the PS3 and 360, like, oh I dont' know, global warming?

Seriously. Both were fucked up and unplayable, now both are very playable. Even without a PS3 version, the 360 version was still fucked up and unplayable.

[blackdelsol94]

Good sir, please review my last post. I clearly acknowledged multiple times that the delay could not be pinned on any one system. Both had their issues.

My discrepancy was that you said:

Originally Posted by tha_con

No, the news about the delay, from TAKE TWO'S MOUTH (aka NOT ROCKSTAR) was the development issues had forced them to delay the game. However, specifics during that press conference were never brought up about any platform.

FROM THAT NEWS it was 'assumed' that it was a PS3 issue.

You were suggesting people simply "assumed" the announcement of a delay was the PS3's fault, when in reality Rockstar said that the PS3 was one of the main contributing factors. Key words: "one of." Not "the only."

[tha_con]

It's just funny to me that it's never mentioned by anyone at Rockstar or Take 2 which system caused the most heartache, yet somehow everyone 'knows' that it was 'largely in part of PS3 difficulties".

Just saying, the 360 version ran at sub 20fps...so how could it not be largely at fault? Obviously the engine just wasn't up to snuff on any system, and I'd hardly pin the delay "largely' on the PS3 version, if at all. Both systems requried a lot of work, and required more time.