sohc vtec?

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by festivagt

And you wonder why this board is going the way of the Dodo.
HENRY

and your last two posts somehow helped

[festivagt]

And has ANY of your responses in this post? The way you act is 3/4 of the reason people don't want to come around - you flame them as soon as they show up and ask for some help. Doesn't go far for relations. But apparantly you'd rather be goin down with the ship instead of trying to fix the leak. Put all the stupid replies up you want to or little pictures if it helps you feel better.
HENRY

[EnJoiThaRex]

Originally Posted by festivagt

And has ANY of your responses in this post?

Im going to help my boy out here. Yes, his responses actually contributed to the thread and helped people gain more knowledge.

Originally Posted by festivagt

The way you act is 3/4 of the reason people don't want to come around - you flame them as soon as they show up and ask for some help.

It was fine until you kept trying to prove something many of us already knew. You also repeatedly stated that he knew nothing and was giving out totally wrong information, which was a bit naive. Then it just got annoying... Like I basically said "You have to learn when to quit" You also said VTEC sized lobes...There is no definite "VTEC" size..

If you want to compare this whole argument to something less technical. Its like your arguing about whether a glass is half full or half empty. In the end, ITS THE SAME THING.

Let me give you a sentence so you can comprehend this better.

Sent 1. Adding Toda cams removes VTEC (all the solenioids and etc. may still be there but the idea of VTEC is not)

Sent 2. Toda cams disable VTEC (same thing as Sent 1 but this makes it much shorter to say.)

Not trying to be a dick but you need to relax. People are to quick to get fired up around here. Just relax, learn something, and be on your way. Most of the people here are adult so enough said...

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by EnJoiThaRex

Im going to help my boy out here. Yes, his responses actually contributed to the thread and helped people gain more knowledge.




It was fine until you kept trying to prove something many of us already knew. You also repeatedly stated that he knew nothing and was giving out totally wrong information, which was a bit naive. Then it just got annoying... Like I basically said "You have to learn when to quit" You also said VTEC sized lobes...There is no definite "VTEC" size..

If you want to compare this whole argument to something less technical. Its like your arguing about whether a glass is half full or half empty. In the end, ITS THE SAME THING.

Let me give you a sentence so you can comprehend this better.

Sent 1. Adding Toda cams removes VTEC (all the solenioids and etc. may still be there but the idea of VTEC is not)

Sent 2. Toda cams disable VTEC (same thing as Sent 1 but this makes it much shorter to say.)

Not trying to be a dick but you need to relax. People are to quick to get fired up around here. Just relax, learn something, and be on your way. Most of the people here are adult so enough said...

thank you. i simply told him we were arguing semantics and he needs to let it die.

[festivagt]

I appreciate you trying to diffuse the situation. I really do. But I am not the one in the wrong. Disabled and removed are two completely different terms. Have been since I can remember and probably since they were thought up as words. Go talk to your local ARMY recruiter - ain't gonna get much more black and white and simple than with them - Either the enemy was REMOVED - GONE, DESTROYED or they were DISABLED - STILL THERE and a threat just not moving. How are those two words the same at all?

I used the vtec statement as a size reference so that people can relate what a cam lobe with more lift and duration is with somthing they already know. If you talk of the VTEC cam lobe - they are typically referred to as the BIG CAM - or the BIG CAM LOBE. They are differnt sized from the LOW LIFT CAM or the SMALL CAM. YEAH, VTEC camlobes can vary in size - but not from high lift lobe to high lift lobe on the same cam. For simplicities sake I left the mid lobes out. Quit pulling on my leg here guys. This is SIMPLE STUFF.

I understand that you can't help someone that doesn't want it. But that doesn't give him the right to flame me and then throw his OPINION - NOT FACT at me and expect me to digest it.(no matter how small you think it is) I have been building engines for a VERY LONG time - Own my own machine shop and employ 20-22 people depending on the workload. I have actually USED and INSTALLED hundreds of different cams and valvetrain types. When I hear some crap fly about how somthing IS NOT correct and then get CALLED OUT on it? It tends to burn me. CALL TODA. You will get an EAR FULL of how your statement is WRONG. COMPLETELY. You want to find out how wrong you are CALL THEM. Since you don't want to take MY WORD for it. I get PAID ALOT for MY WORD.

I am sorry - I am a machinist - Dyed in the wool. I have a low tolerance for this sort of thing. It comes with the less than .001 of a tolerance I have to live with. Maybe you don't have to live with that sort of exactness, but I do and I deliver that to my customers every day.

HENRY

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by festivagt

I appreciate you trying to diffuse the situation. I really do. But I am not the one in the wrong. Disabled and removed are two completely different terms. Have been since I can remember and probably since they were thought up as words. Go talk to your local ARMY recruiter - ain't gonna get much more black and white and simple than with them - Either the enemy was REMOVED - GONE, DESTROYED or they were DISABLED - STILL THERE and a threat just not moving. How are those two words the same at all?

I used the vtec statement as a size reference so that people can relate what a cam lobe with more lift and duration is with somthing they already know. If you talk of the VTEC cam lobe - they are typically referred to as the BIG CAM - or the BIG CAM LOBE. They are differnt sized from the LOW LIFT CAM or the SMALL CAM. YEAH, VTEC camlobes can vary in size - but not from high lift lobe to high lift lobe on the same cam. For simplicities sake I left the mid lobes out. Quit pulling on my leg here guys. This is SIMPLE STUFF.

I understand that you can't help someone that doesn't want it. But that doesn't give him the right to flame me and then throw his OPINION - NOT FACT at me and expect me to digest it.(no matter how small you think it is) I have been building engines for a VERY LONG time - Own my own machine shop and employ 20-22 people depending on the workload. I have actually USED and INSTALLED hundreds of different cams and valvetrain types. When I hear some crap fly about how somthing IS NOT correct and then get CALLED OUT on it? It tends to burn me. CALL TODA. You will get an EAR FULL of how your statement is WRONG. COMPLETELY. You want to find out how wrong you are CALL THEM. Since you don't want to take MY WORD for it. I get PAID ALOT for MY WORD.

I am sorry - I am a machinist - Dyed in the wool. I have a low tolerance for this sort of thing. It comes with the less than .001 of a tolerance I have to live with. Maybe you don't have to live with that sort of exactness, but I do and I deliver that to my customers every day.

HENRY

do you understand what "CONTEXT" means? context is what changes the meanings of words there is no black and white in every situation. look the context in which the statement was made will blur the boundaries of the words. you're arguing semantics nothing more. we were debating funcntion of a motor. and the original factory function was disabled or removed. those who think in only black and white can not think outside of the box. and the army is a poor example. you're talking about something that has an oxymoron as an actual tacticle term.

i have not mis-informed anybody about any of the functions brought into account in this discussion. the original vtec system was remove or disabled either way you look at it. the context of removing an enemy and destryong and enemy is different than talking about the function of something. you're comparing a noun to a verb so that in itself is where you're logic is flawed. and when you combine the two like in the discussion we have just had, definitions get confused. but i'm talking function, vtec as a system, you're talking hardware. like was stated we know that the physical vtec system was removed. but when talking function of a system, it was removed/disabled. either term can be used interchangeably. I don't even know why we are still talkign about this when it's already been proven the end result is that same. this is what we refer to as semantics

[Darkness]

and your reference to vtec lobes was still incorrect and you're contradicting yourself about "being black and white" with definitions. you say disable and remove aren't interchangeable yet you hide behind the term "vtec lobes" as an example when infact it is incorrect. they only thing you can "techinically" define cames by are lift and duration. just putting that out there

[festivagt]

Think outside of the box with your engine and figure out how your going to put your connecting rods back through the front of your motor. It is BLACK AND WHITE with engines - no grey area. They run on tried and true FACTS. Not your GREY AREA OPINION. Contexts - are opinion. Take your CONTEXT and call up TODA and get YOUR CONTEXT STUCK SOME PLACE. In this business it is cut and dry. The room for error is less than .001 % . Anything more and your going to blow it. I am not going to ask you to admit your wrong.

The ONLY thing I am going to ask of you is that you give out the CORRECT information. The people that come looking for it DESERVE it - BECAUSE - they came here and signed up - because - they thought you could HELP. They could have gone someplace else for thier help. We should offer to give them the best we can - it doesn't take any more to be nice than to be mean. It also makes you look like a HERO in the end. Is that so hard?
HENRY

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by festivagt

Think outside of the box with your engine and figure out how your going to put your connecting rods back through the front of your motor. It is BLACK AND WHITE with engines - no grey area. They run on tried and true FACTS. Not your GREY AREA OPINION. Contexts - are opinion. Take your CONTEXT and call up TODA and get YOUR CONTEXT STUCK SOME PLACE. In this business it is cut and dry. The room for error is less than .001 % . Anything more and your going to blow it. I am not going to ask you to admit your wrong.

The ONLY thing I am going to ask of you is that you give out the CORRECT information. The people that come looking for it DESERVE it - BECAUSE - they came here and signed up - because - they thought you could HELP. They could have gone someplace else for thier help. We should offer to give them the best we can - it doesn't take any more to be nice than to be mean. It also makes you look like a HERO in the end. Is that so hard?
HENRY

you are one hard headed guy. why do yo bring up connecting rods. do you understand what a noun and a verb are. an action and an object. we are talkign about an action which can be disabled or removed. it's not black and white like an object. to remove an action or disable it are essentially the same thing. Toda killer cams will disable or remove your motors vtec abilities. you're talking components. you throw in all this other crap without even contradicting anything i've said. you simply state a blind opinion. I'll break this down how i would for my 5 year old daughter

If you're a sprinter in the olympics and shatter your leg or have to have your leg removed. either way was your ability to run disabled or removed This is what we mean by context. Not your blind "logic". like i said i never stated any mis-information. you can not remotely debate anything i have said. you just keep repeating yourself and throwing in stuff that is null and void.


VTEC is a process, not an object. you can't pick up a vtec. it's called a vtec system. so if you want to debate terms your are incorrect

[festivagt]

I am not interested in how you 'VIEW' this - I am on the side of the fence as the REST OF THE MANUFACTURING WORLD. This is a place where IT IS BLACK AND WHITE. THERE is NO ROOM FOR ERROR HERE. NO GREY. Opinions and misconstruesions have no place here. If there is there will be a GAZILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT brought about. That is why companies pay 30 people to sit in a room for 1 month and come out with a page of jargin that will keep them from being sued to death. Because someone like you might misinterperet somthing as simple as - "don't wear the bag on your head - you could suffocate." Now I am not SURE about how you could misinterperate a SIMPLE statement like that but people DO. Maybe because they take it out of context - I don't know. That LOGIC is so beneath me I can't go that low.

Connecting rods? That whole statement was about not being black and white - grey areas break stuff - Didn't you read that part of the message? Or maybe that was TOO SIMPLE?

And WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OBJECTS and REMOVING or making them so they don't work. But in order for the TODA pieces to be installed - the VTEC components need to be REMOVED. There just isn't ANY ROOM in the head to DISABLE the VTEC components and then install the TODA parts. One cannot be in place if another is there. Remove them to install the toda parts. See how BLACK AND WHITE this is? All of this grey area must be in your head.

Um, do we need to grab a dictionary or maybe I should pay some of my guys to go around and do street interviews on what people think REMOVED and DISABLED mean? Then I can have a VIDEO of people saying it. Would you believe it then?


HENRY

[clayton]

holy hell.

[festivagt]

Guess I scared him.
HENRY

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by festivagt

I am not interested in how you 'VIEW' this - I am on the side of the fence as the REST OF THE MANUFACTURING WORLD. This is a place where IT IS BLACK AND WHITE. THERE is NO ROOM FOR ERROR HERE. NO GREY. Opinions and misconstruesions have no place here. If there is there will be a GAZILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT brought about. That is why companies pay 30 people to sit in a room for 1 month and come out with a page of jargin that will keep them from being sued to death. Because someone like you might misinterperet somthing as simple as - "don't wear the bag on your head - you could suffocate." Now I am not SURE about how you could misinterperate a SIMPLE statement like that but people DO. Maybe because they take it out of context - I don't know. That LOGIC is so beneath me I can't go that low.

Connecting rods? That whole statement was about not being black and white - grey areas break stuff - Didn't you read that part of the message? Or maybe that was TOO SIMPLE?

And WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OBJECTS and REMOVING or making them so they don't work. But in order for the TODA pieces to be installed - the VTEC components need to be REMOVED. There just isn't ANY ROOM in the head to DISABLE the VTEC components and then install the TODA parts. One cannot be in place if another is there. Remove them to install the toda parts. See how BLACK AND WHITE this is? All of this grey area must be in your head.

Um, do we need to grab a dictionary or maybe I should pay some of my guys to go around and do street interviews on what people think REMOVED and DISABLED mean? Then I can have a VIDEO of people saying it. Would you believe it then?


HENRY

1. You your whole arguement about 30 people being payed to sit around and "write jargon" is also there to cover all forms of "context" of a stated situation to cover the companies ass. because depending on the context the meaning of a term/situation then change.

2. I already provided you an example of how your "black and white" view is flawed. You have yet to give me a decent rebutle on this topic. you Bring up more stuff that shows you can't even comprehend what i'm trying to say. You have simply shown that terms like Noun and Verb are above your level of comprehension.

3. You are talking about removing specific components like, cams and parts of the head. we are talking about an action/process being terminated. The statements was that toda killer cams disable vtec on a specific motor. Your whole argument is that vtec killer cams remove vtec components in an attempt to correct the prior statment made by a member. The fact is that both statments are true, you just can't understand how with your closeminded view. Installing toda killer cams does disable your motor's vtec abilities and installing them removes key components in the head. You're arguing semantics for some unknown weird reason. Then you bring up connecting rods and the military. Everybody else on this thread is talking about removing/disabling a motors abilites. you're talking about connecting rods and the military. Your example of the 30 people that get payed to right up jargon does nothing more than prove my point. Like you said they are there to cover all forms of interpretation and meaning of a phraze,situation etc. so that they don't get sued


4. I gave you an example of how stupid your argument was with that olympic runner. "if the runner had a broken leg or lost their leg, did they have their abiltiy to run taken away or disabled?" Both are true because of the context of the situation. removing a motors abilities to perform a certain action and removing an enemy and putting connecting rods into a motor have nothing to do with each other. Everybody else understand this but you. you keep saying we're misleading people when there is nobody being mis-lead by any of the information.

5. context, semantics, verbs, nouns are obviously above your comprehension. you have yet to give an example that conflicts with what i have said. seriously you do not bring anything to the table that proves my statments to be false. you simply keep hiding behind very poor examples that don't even appy to the "CONTEXT" of the situation. if you do your dictionary test you have to bring up the context of the situation. context is everything. look at my olympic runner example withthe broken leg. go around and ask people that question on video and see what they say you're arguing about nothing, and proving nothing other than that you can't think outside the box. thinking outside the box is how honda got where it is now. the motors they produced putting out the streetable high hp numbers were unheard in previous decades of mass produced engines. hell ass of right now they are doing research on camless piston motors thought to be impossible. People like you who only see "either/or" will be permantaly stuck at the same level you're currently at because you simply do can't look at a situation from any other way.


6. you contradict yourself about beign black and white technical and seeing definitions as only one way just used an example of a cam profile being called a vtec sized love. what the hell is a vtec sized lobe?


a. Cam lobes can only be classified by lift and duration

b. Vtec lobe is a very noob statement in that not all vtec motors even change cam profiles at vtec crossover. you talk about being cut and technical with motors and yet you talk about vtec lobes?

[EnJoiThaRex]

Originally Posted by WVU97GS-R

b. Vtec lobe is a very noob statement in that not all vtec motors even change cam profiles at vtec crossover. you talk about being cut and technical with motors and yet you talk about vtec lobes?

LOL yeah he said he wants to be simple but say something like "VTEC lobes".

That can be compared to saying "That car has NOS" When referring to the general idea of nitrous. When you says VTEC lobes, I take it you mean bigger cam lobes. But both statement are poor ways of stating a point.

If you want to debate cams, you need to verify what he is saying that is incorrect and voice your opinion/fact. But instead these past 30 posts have not been a debate about cams but about WORDS and GRAMMAR USE.

Look, you can use the same word, but CONTEXT MATTERS. I cant believe you still want to argue. Context is not a matter of a opinion, it is the way you present the idea or statement. Holy crap...But here dont take my "opinion"..Dictionary.com for you. Its quite relevant too.

"the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context."

You can either state something where word choice matters, like you did because you wanted to get technical. Or where it doesnt, like he did be because he was going to keep it simple.

Originally Posted by festivagt

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OBJECTS and REMOVING or making them so they don't work

HAHaha. I could break this quote down even more. Right there you just used disable and remove in the same sentence. YOU are the one talking about "OBJECTS" . HE is the one talking about VTEC as an "IDEA" If you continue to see the VTEC system as an object and he continues to refer to VTEC as an idea (which is more corretc, like he stated, you cant pick up a VTEC), then you both will continually run into pointless arguments, like this one, which again, is not even about the topic at hand.


What do you mean engine are BLACK and WHITE? <---CONTEXT!!!

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by EnJoiThaRex

LOL yeah he said he wants to be simple but say something like "VTEC lobes".

That can be compared to saying "That car has NOS" When referring to the general idea of nitrous. When you says VTEC lobes, I take it you mean bigger cam lobes. But both statement are poor ways of stating a point.

If you want to debate cams, you need to verify what he is saying that is incorrect and voice your opinion/fact. But instead these past 30 posts have not been a debate about cams but about WORDS and GRAMMAR USE.

Look, you can use the same word, but CONTEXT MATTERS. I cant believe you still want to argue. Context is not a matter of a opinion, it is the way you present the idea or statement. Holy crap...But here dont take my "opinion"..Dictionary.com for you. Its quite relevant too.

"the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context."

You can either state something where word choice matters, like you did because you wanted to get technical. Or where it doesnt, like he did be because he was going to keep it simple.



HAHaha. I could break this quote down even more. Right there you just used disable and remove in the same sentence. YOU are the one talking about "OBJECTS" . HE is the one talking about VTEC as an "IDEA" If you continue to see the VTEC system as an object and he continues to refer to VTEC as an idea (which is more corretc, like he stated, you cant pick up a VTEC), then you both will continually run into pointless arguments, like this one, which again, is not even about the topic at hand.


What do you mean engine are BLACK and WHITE? <---CONTEXT!!!

nahh man i'm done. i choose to ignore him. that was my last post to him since he refuses to see anybody but himself being correct in any situation.

and when he talks about black and white. he is referring to how i said there is still a gray area when building motors. he said it's black and white, i.e(either/or). my point is if honda had followed that mentality their engines wouldn't be where they are today.