stumbling and starting problems (D16Y8)

[gl_eng]

1999 Civic EX engine: D16Y8 Automatic Transmision
I am all out of things to try. Here is the story.
It all started while driving at highway speeds the car would start stumbling. After an hour of driving,
the CEL eventually came on. My mechanic next door had a scanner but he couldn't scan because
he claims that the ODBII plug did not supplied power to his scanner.
He examined the distributor cap and rotor closely and plugs and said they were ok.
I disconnected the battery and the CEL went away.
The throttle body was cleaned with the throttle body cleaner.
The following few days the car would start with no problems but as soon
as it warmed up, the idle would dropped low such that while at the stop light, the engine would begin to stall and did unless some gas is applied.
The fuel filter was changed will no difference.
Inspection of the Main relay was good. Upon turning the key, the fuel pump is heard humming for 2 seconds and the main relay would click and cut off the pump. During the fuel filter change, I tested the pump and it would pump about a quarter cup of fuel in 4 to 6 seconds.
This slow idle continued for a few more days. Then the car became harder to start or not at all.
Plugs were taken out and were wet with fuel.
New platinum plugs were installed.
The car was started in limp mode (accelerator all the way down) It ran to 40mpg ok.
With the engine running, I pulled one plug wire off the plug and stuck a screwdriver in the wire
and tested the spark jump to the engine manifold. The spark jumped a quarter inch but can't do it at a half inch unlike the Chevy Malibu.
The color wasn't all blueish more orange. Similar with the other wires.
The next day, the car couldn't start not even in limp mode. Plugs pulled out were wet with fuel.
All this playing around, the battery had to be charged overnight at some point.
And then it was able to start the following day. Very intermittent...
At this point, I'm thinking spark and changing the ignition parts.
A USED Hitachi igniter E12-303 and a USED TC-08A ignition coil was installed in the TEC TD-73U distributor.
By stoke of luck the engine started again. I left it running.
Driving it, durring harder acceleration, the engine bogs down as if no gas was applied. More gas but the engine doesn't respond.
It accelerates only when you gently apply gas. Flooring the pedal, the engine doesn't rev up.
There is no problem starting again when it is hot.
This still didn't solve the problem as it didn't start again when the engine was cold the next couple days.
This time a new after market TC-08A ignition coil was put in.
It started again but then it didn't start the following day.
A known working Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor was swapped with no luck.
The TPS sensor seemed to be riveted on but it has not been tested. This could be the next step.

Anyone have any knowledge of the problem, please share.


(NOTE: 2 years ago, the Honda dealer had replace the ignition coil due to can not start)

[mattliston]

well to check the TPS, unplug the harness from it, and turn the ignition on only.

measure the resistance, should be 0.5 phms with no throttle. Im not sure about the ohm rating for full throttle.

one thing to check is open the throttle slowly, and the resistance increase should be nice and smooth.

Im not very experienced wiht the d16y8 motor electrical-wise. does it use a crank sensor at all? that may cause a random starting issue, but thats about it.

[mattliston]

I dont understand teh sparkplug part. you should use a sparkplug in the wire and touch it to teh valve cover adn look at the spark. using a screwdriver, is simply touching the end inside the wire and putting the shaft 1/16 or 1/8 form the valvecover. no nee to try and get 1/4 hodnas dont use a very strong spark. tehy rely on a good quench area and plug clearances to make good ignition

[gl_eng]

mattliston Thanks for your feedback
I haven't tested the TPS for the ohm rating but I don't think the TPS is the problem.
I have ruled out the ignition and seems to be a fuel problem even though I have mentioned that the plugs were wet.
By priming (turning the key to on without engaging the starter) until you hear the main relay click off and repeating this priming for 15 times or more, the engine starts.
Also keep in mind that the engine bogs down when the accelerator is applied heavily.
The first time this happened was at highway speeds the car would start stumbling and I believe the tank was almost empty. (This may cause the pump filter to clog up by sucking in the bottom of the tank)
Now I'm lost as to the next steps.
Possible fuel pump filter bag clogged up, fuel pump pressure, fuel pressure regulator.
I'm going to check the pump filter bag next. Since we are in the holidays, this may take some time.

[mattliston]

well a fuel filter is cheaper to replace then a fuel pmp or even the fuel pump bag filter

how much fuel injector cleaner have you tried? If you already treied some, dont use it any more. if you have NOT used it yet, get a bottle and pour it into your tank and let it sit for a little while. run that, maybe it wil solve any clogs you might have

hope iot goes good for ya, shitty when this happens in the holiday season

[HondatechAV6]

it's hard to judge ignition spark condition over the internet :P but i'm leaning toward at least a new ignition coil with new cap rotor plugs and wires(all honda). typically ignitors hold up well, but it may also need replacement.

the reasoning is resistance. honda plug wires and plugs have a certain resistance and heat range. this is in spec with the coil. using aftermarket parts can change these values, putting more strain on your coil wearing it out faster.

harder accleration requires intense spark to main the load. it also requires adequate fuel pressure, but i'd start with diagnosing spark side of the system.

[ATISTANG]

you need to find out what code was thrown, that is gonna point you in the right direction

i'd say your ignition system is fine, sounds more like you have a bad ground or malfunctioning sensor causing rich condition


when you crank with the gas pedal on the floor your injectors won't fire, so when it starts like that it tells me that it is rich and flooded. this also supports the theory of a healthy ignition system because a lean mixture is harder to ignite than a rich mixture, this is why starting a cold engine is easier with a slightly rich mixture

[mattliston]

why use honda when NGK makes better shit at a better price?

for igniton, stick to NGK

[HondatechAV6]

Originally Posted by mattliston

why use honda when NGK makes better shit at a better price?

for igniton, stick to NGK

his civic uses NGK(zfr5f-11) from the factory($2-$3 each). he can also use a denso(kj16cr--l11)

on his engine i'd highly recommend Hitachi or Tec for his coil, cap and rotor.
use stock wires.
if you have to go aftermarket ensure the wires do not exceed 25kΩ.

[ATISTANG]

damn people, the plug wires are besides the point right now

[mattliston]

Originally Posted by HondatechAV6

his civic uses NGK(zfr5f-11) from the factory($2-$3 each). he can also use a denso(kj16cr--l11)

on his engine i'd highly recommend Hitachi or Tec for his coil, cap and rotor.
use stock wires.
if you have to go aftermarket ensure the wires do not exceed 25kΩ.

quit reading from the book, its annoying

[HondatechAV6]

Originally Posted by mattliston

quit reading from the book, its annoying

i don't like you.

[mattliston]

Originally Posted by HondatechAV6

i don't like you.

[HondatechAV6]

Originally Posted by mattliston

i thought i'd come back and help out again, but after several of your knucklehead responses i'm glad you're here - sending work to my shop.

[mattliston]

Originally Posted by HondatechAV6

i thought i'd come back and help out again, but after several of your knucklehead responses i'm glad you're here - sending work to my shop.

awww

what is it thios time that gets you bussiness? is it the people witht eh terrivble 5w30 that NEED 5w20 "cuz honda said so"

is it the starter repalcement that turned out to be a connetion issue?

so far youve been giving advice that cost more money then necessary