I have a 95 Integar SE. I just got it about 6 moths months ago and funds have been low so its not very heavily modified. all its got is Eibach pro kit springs, and a Greddy EVO. and some extra stuff (nothing performance wise besides exhaust). Anyway, I was just wondering if its really worth the $400 for headers. I've heard they only give around 8-10hp and will fuck your car on emission tests. Anyway...I would like to have some input before I spend the money. Also, if it is not worth it, what are some good ways to spend that $400 (performance mods primarily, and I'm already getting a Intake)? Thanks!
Building up you car is like putting together a puzzle. You do it one piece at a time until you can see the whole picture. The puzzle won't look right if you forgot one piece of it. Every piece is important, no matter how small the gains might be.
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Originally posted by Tuan you better upgrade the cat too since there you have a new header and exhaust with something in between them that is bone stock and flows like bone stock too....a lot of people keep the stock cat and that limits their header and exhaust gains.
replacing the cat will result in failed emissions, right? is it relatively easy to swap the stock one back on for emission testing day?
And not just cause it's cool to agree with him. Personal experience was that the AEM/CAI had the most noticeable difference and gain for my LS.
I did also do a header and a catback, the EVO as well. As I said all thiis didn't yeild as big of an impression on me as did the AEM/CAI.
This is NOT the say the AEM is a wonder mod or that it will produce 25 HP gains. It's just to say that the H&E were negligable when compared to the intake.
Good luck,
and try to develop a plan for your end result as previously mentioned. It's always better to do it right the first time. There are plenty of guys that have done it all before you, full of advice.
Originally posted by kwintegra first of all yes headers are worth it besides any internal mods headers will give you the biggest power feel out of any bolt on mod. but yu dont have to spend 400.00 for a header you can add a cheap header such as a pace setter for about 139.00 and get about the same power increase. no headers will not mess up your emmission!!!
Simmer down now,
I hate to do this but, you are screamin out your A55!
What, makes you think that the header gives you the biggest power feel? Thats just Royal B.S. "biggest power feel? WTF?"
He was not talking about internals or combining them with bolt-ons. Please refrain from misleading SHO members especially when stating that HEADERS,"which is incorrect because our motors only have ONE header," produce the biggest noticeable gains.
Please try to justify your posting.
Is your LS SC'd and if so please list Everything done to it, who installed it and who tuned it?
I must reiterate that this guys statement is untrue especially when comparing the Pacesetter to many of the other higher quality available header's, "technically correct," for the LS or any other Teg.
Please enlighten us some more, what else do you suggest for higher performance? A Huge A55 coffee can exhaust that farts and belches when you stab the throttle?
H'mmm,
A.
PS you all must understand that I am NOT stating that the Header is not Worth it, it just doesn't perform as well as the AEM/CAI IMHO with the LS without any other mods or tuning. Even with tuning and the full I/H/E you will not gain much but, rather feel a more linear power delivery not a stronger feel altogether, just smoother.
I told you what I had on the car in the begining, but here it is again.
Greddy EVO.
Eibach Springs
AEM cold air (very soon)
and some other non-performance additions
I got the car last september, and got my license March 1st (which is why its bearly modified). I know imports (parts, cars, etc...) Just not nearly as well as you guys do!! so thanks for the help
I agree with Tuan on this one. The Pacesetter header is junk, from its design to its construction. The reason it sells is the price. I bet when they did R&D all they did was take the old unit off and have their guy bend out something that would fit in its place. Thats it. I wouldnt recommend Pacestter anything, they are a joke in the aftermarket world.
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Standard Disclaimer - Don't believe everything on the internet. Including what i say.
just to illustrate the impact of header vs. exhaust, here is the dyno from comptech for their exhaust, and exhaust + header on a 2000 LS. the header does add power, but the increase looks to be around half that of the exhaust.
you just have to ask yourself if $300 or $400 is worth 4 or so hp.
i might suggest getting new shocks to go with your eibach springs. being able to use more of the power you already have in the corners can be more fun than adding a little more power.
You say you're here to teach so teach, you say you are here to help and show the way so do it and stop trying to make more useless points.
Let us all know what you have done or the mods you have experienced. Tell us what To and Not to get. So you say I have no car? then let us know what you are driving, and what events you regularly compete in?
Don't just state that the infamous header in question is a good mod based on an SC'd car that you have seen. Don't bother even detailing what else your friend had done to the car besides the header and SC. This is truely helpful and a lesson to all of us lesser experienced import enthusiests.
I am thinking before I print which is why I say BS, to the Pacesetter header comment which is how you seem to have gotten involved in this post.
Nuttin for nuttin but, if you compare the header that you are fervently defending as a cost conscious option, then why the heck would you buy it, if it publically proved not to gain HP but, rather lose? If that is the case then just save the money you'd spend on it and keep the stock header for better performance? Or save up and spend a little more for a header that Will produce gains?
Don't even begin to comment on how I make, save or spend money , that is not even an issue and proves that you are grasping at staws to justify your position.
My above stated opinion would have saved him the $400. since I am not advocating spending the money on a header, especially now or and so early in his game. Unless of course you are advocating him get the header for looks only?
So end of debate with the header you say? OK then how else can You help here?
Tuan does not work for me and in No way did I even elude to that. There you go again more spewing manure and creating a story to suit your needs for posting.
Why are you really here then? Oh yeah you started by Not stating fact or truth but, by attempting to Flame me.
Good job, thanks for the help you have been a wonderful import tuning instructor. You get an A+! Let's hope you at least try to practice what you preach as the NEW IMPORT TUNING PROFESSOR!!!
Understood Tuan, I apologize for responding after you posted...
I unfortunately sent it while on netscape and didn't see your response on AOL.
200WHP is a good possibility if done correctly and the proper tuning is accomplished.
The last time we went to the Dyno we got 194HP and 132PF of TQ out of a B18C5 with Toda B's and a full Toda valvetrain buildup. The Intake was an AEM/CAI, Header was a Spoon 4-2-1, straight pipe, and Thermal R&D catback 2.25" diameter. Vtec crossover was at 5100 and the revlimiter was raised to 8800 RPM. The whole valvetrain could certainly survive trips to a true 9K RPM. The stock ITR Tach is inaccurate near redline as much as 400 RPM.
Timing was advanced to 16 degrees and the intake cam was set at +3, exhaust was set at +2. It went from an untuned 184 HP with 124 PF of TQ to the 194 consistantly.
More tuning is expected and after a true 2.5" catback is installed a potential high 190's to possibly 200 WHP could be a reality. Fine tuning the FPR and using the wideband O2 helped stabilize the AF ratio.
Tuning and matching high quality componants is key. Tuning and time...
A.
Thank you for the Correct information Tuan, I was very frustrated and only trying to help, I guess thats not very easy around here anymore.
Originally posted by Tuan before anyone else starts defending Pacesetter headers and make themselves look more ignorant than they really are, I would ask that you learn some basic header design tech before you start pulling sh*t out of your ass:
if you have questions about my header article linked above, feel free to ask AND LEARN THE CORRECT INFO.
compare the Pacesetter to a hybrid 4-2-1 like the Type One header here...there's no comparison.
What I can't tolerate is stupidity and misinfo here.
Yes we are here to help each other
BUT
putting up WRONG info HELPS NO-ONE!!! you lead them astray.
The Pacesetter has the smallest diameter primaries and collector (1 3/4 in.)...both piss poor chokers of power especially for FI...hell the damn POS lost power in an N/A GSR. If you want to see a real SC header look at the HyTech Supercharger 4-1 header or a Kamikaze 4-1 design qualities: HUGE DIAMETERS, SHORT PRIMARIES, HUGE 2.5-3 in. COLLECTOR.
A header with good characteristics for a SC will be PISS POOR for a N/A setup and vice versa.
So please don't argue for the sake of arguing...you just make yourself look even more stupid to people who know what the tech is. You can't BS your way around here when people catch you Bs'ing.
I expect a full apology to Greyteg from the 2 members who plainly did NOT know what they were talking about. And I don't need any lip back from either one of you.
Tuan, thanx for the nice info.
I know i want the jackson racing super. So, should i get the charger first or the header and exhaust? What is the general rule for the order of upgrades?
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Originally posted by kwintegra tuan and grey you guys think what you want and do what is best for you and ill so the same alright enough said lets move on buddy i know what works for me!!!!
......yo kwik....u got m0ded :
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yup...im taking the kit off soon...
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Headers? worth it or not!?
but, you are screamin out your A55!
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