LS Non-VTEC vs LS VTEC

[Phatcivic]

Yes we all know Ls vtec is a bad idea especially for high revs due to the rod and stroke ratio. My question is how many of you kept your motor (rs/ls/gs) no vtec and up'd the redline?

[FastNSX]

Several isssues.

1) Poor rod ratio.

2) Rotating assembly is not quite as robust as the vtec versions.

3) Unless you upgrade the valve train, winding the motor out isn't going to make any more power. Torque peaks around 5,200 rpm and drops like a rock after 6K. Horsepower peaks in the 6.5K area and falls off after that.

So, at the very least, you need bigger cams to make power at high rpms. That is the big difference between the vtec and non-vtec engines. Dual cam profiles allow you to run crazy lift/overlap at high speed and still have a decent idle. Without it, you are limited to the most aggressive profile that will still let you idle reasonably well.

If you get a block girdle, balance everything and upgrade your valve train (cams, springs), you should be good to 8K or so. Without the upgrades, it is a complete waste.

Good luck with your project.

[White98LS]

Yeah I have cams in my LS, and they helped top end power a whole lot, but my top end is still about the same as a bolt-on GS-R. I haven't found a point to raising the redline, my power still peaks at about 6500rpm, it's just a much higher peak power-wise. Despite Crower saying the Stage 2 cams make power to 8000rpm+, I have yet to see an LS with these cams with a power peak above 6600rpm. When I dyno-tuned (I didn't actually get to tune much so my numbers were only okay, I have more mods now also) my torque peaked at 124wtq at 4000rpm but with 122wtq at 5200 and 120wtq at 6000rpm, then it started dropping. Now with my ITR CAI the powerband has seemed to shift up 200-300rpm.

[Phatcivic]

I really havent started on anything yet just trying to think about things..

I want to keep the LS non vtec and get crane cams and cam gears along with i/h/e and an apexi air/fuel controller. With that what do you think my redline would sit and approximate power?

[White98LS]

I'd say get Crower cams instead of Cranes, they are more aggressive for the money.

You'll be fine with the stock redline and Crower 403's, you should definitely raise the redline with 404's, which also require valve springs.

You will need a FPR and gauge in addition to the S-AFC, don't worry it's less than $100.

With and only with good tuning, you should make about a solid 150whp @ 6500rpm and 125wtq @ 4300rpm.

Oh and don't forget the Carsound cat!

[4DoorGs-R2001]

1. ls is never meant to rev thats why its a good turbo motor.
2. it can handle turbo with less mods compared to vtec motors


everything above is my personal opinion :haha:
may not be fact but with my experiences it is true

[White98LS]

Originally posted by 4DoorGs-R2001
1. ls is never meant to rev thats why its a good turbo motor.
2. it can handle turbo with less mods compared to vtec motors


everything above is my personal opinion :haha:
may not be fact but with my experiences it is true

AMEN. LS/VTEC is fast and cool and somewhat cheap, until it breaks after 10k, 20k, 30k miles. Kinda like DSMs.... But we're driving Hondas here, not Mitsus.... they should be reliable! No offense to DSMs.... If you're going the hybrid route and starting from scratch, you might as well go B20/VTEC anyway, same thing essentially but 2.0L, same price too.... And more likely to not have been thrashed.

[4DoorGs-R2001]

well to begin with hondas are not turbo cars. maybe the engine can handle the turbo but i bet you it wont last nearly as long as a built all motor, motor will. so my advice, if u want to rev high, buy something with blanced parts stock, such as a Type-R, or buy any othe VTEC b series and put some work in

and have u ever seen a ls/vtec head after its blown?
i saw my friends when we PRIED the head off the block with a cro bar. his valves and pistons had become one. that only happened because his timing belt broke. if u ever do ls/vtec buy a Toda timing belt its the best 140 dollar, i think, invest ment u can make


have fun :haha:

[Phatcivic]

if i go turbo is it possible to run 10psi day and night with no internal work? Or whats a good boost to run on the ls with stock internals, I know 7 psi is the norm but i was just trying to see if i can get over the 150whp mark with the ls with internals, figuring for every 1 psi is 10hp (i think thats the mathmatical figure out for most engines.

[CRVTEC0WNZJ00]

I'm running a turbo in the future on my B18B....running a norm turbo then building my internals for sure....have more fun...more boost....I'd run 7psi daily, and like 10-15psi at the track on built internals.

[OdiedogCX]

b18b1 handles turbo very well.

In Honda Tuning there was an EG Hatch with a stock b18b1 other then a block guard running 12's.

[SMZ812]

LS/VTEC is fast and cool and somewhat cheap, until it breaks after 10k, 20k, 30k miles

thats the problem with LS/VTEC, is if you go cheap!
a properly built ls/vtec can be very reliable. a friend of mine has one with about 20-30k on it making roughly 180whp untuned on stock b16a cams. a lot of time and money has gone into the car and it is taken well care of and that is what is important to making a motor last. check it out, it's for sale in the classifieds. "1999 integra clean title"

[FastNSX]

Originally posted by Phatcivic
if i go turbo is it possible to run 10psi day and night with no internal work?

If you want to run more than 7-8 psi on the stock shortblock, you need to spring for some real engine management. Hondata at least, and a good tuner.

[Phatcivic]

ehh Ill probably go Ls non vtec and boost 7 psi with good engine management. Anyone know what poer ill be laying down? My nissan at the crank is 180tq and 175hp so stock whp is around 150 something figure 15% loss through drivetrain. I want to be just as quick if not faster with the Ls.

[White98LS]

An LS with 7psi should be much faster than your SE-R, no problem. Just think.... all-motor with a little over $2k in mods, I have about 150whp. With 7psi there shouldn't be much of a problem getting over 150whp, especially since you're interested in actually tuning the thing right. Besides, the LS weighs less than the SE-R (although the SE-R has a lot more torque), so you probably won't need quite 150whp to beat a stock SE-R. I'm not dissing your other car or anything, just stating the facts.