My Plan of Attack on my B18B1

[Gen3Project]

I am looking to take my Gen3 B18B Teg and make it a project car and don't want to go forced induction. I have done lots of research and here is my plan and a few questions that I have.

Goal; strong performance 4500 RPM thru redline (stock redline to be maintained). Tuning won't be done for max HP but the best overall curve.

DC 4-2-1 Header
3" CAI
Hi flow CAT
2-1/4" CAT Back
Crower 62403 and Gears
Skunk2 IM
SAFC
ITR 62mm Throttle body.
FPR and gage

Now the questions that I have about the setup:

1) Since I don't want to raise the redline above stock and my understanding is that the Skunk2 IM will move everything up in the powerband, will this be a waste of money and time on getting this?

2) Since the inlet side of the stock intake manifold on the B18B is I think 58mm, would it be best to keep the stock IM and open it up to match the ITR 62mm Throttle body?

3) Or should I just leave the intake side stock and forget about doing anything with the manifold and throttle body?

4) A problem that I have is that the nearest place for me to get any tuning done is about 2 hours away, is there any way that I could set the SAFC by sight/sound/smell until I can get it tuned? Howe about the CAM gears? and FPR?

5) I have read that since I am not raising the stock redline, I should not need springs for the Crower 62403 cams. Is this true?



Don't know if I missed anything, but any recommendations or suggestions would be helpful.

[White98LS]

I think somebody must have read at least a couple of my posts... That setup is exactly mine except the IM/TB.

1. Yes, you are 100% correct.

2. Not a bad idea. The throttle body is more for throttle response and will only give you about 2whp, so don't expect much. But 61-62mm is the perfect size. If I were you I would bore out a stock LS TB for ~$80 instead of getting an ITR one, since you have to get a new throttle cable and bracket and re-route it... minor pain.

3. Kinda answered above ^^. You wouldn't suffer much at all with a totally stock TB/IM.

4. No no no no no no no nonononono get it tuned, that's the most important part. These cams want not much fuel at idle, tons around 3k-4500, and middling amounts in the high end... you definitely need to tune it on a dyno though, for max gains, driveability, and for the safety of your engine.

5. You're right. Some people get the springs because it's just a good, safe idea, but a lot of people (like me) run 403's with a stock redline and stock springs and have never had problems. I'm pretty confident I don't have valve float because my power basically peaks from 6500-redline.

[Gen3Project]

2. Not a bad idea. The throttle body is more for throttle response and will only give you about 2whp, so don't expect much. But 61-62mm is the perfect size. If I were you I would bore out a stock LS TB for ~$80 instead of getting an ITR one, since you have to get a new throttle cable and bracket and re-route it... minor pain.

What I thought that I have read was that the throttle cable and bracket and re-route was only necessary on the GS-R since the intake manifolds were somewhat different. I guess that I will have to go re-investigate.


4. No no no no no no no nonononono get it tuned, that's the most important part. These cams want not much fuel at idle, tons around 3k-4500, and middling amounts in the high end... you definitely need to tune it on a dyno though, for max gains, driveability, and for the safety of your engine.

I completely understand that and agree. However, since time is a premium and the tuner being over 2 hours away, there could be a lot of time between change and the tuning. I just don't want to run lean or ......., even just getting there.

[CRVTEC0WNZJ00]

Go LS/VTEC if you want to use your B18B and not go with FI...only way I see any serious All motor potential within the B18B, tho White98LS you do have a nice LS with good power, its just not as serious as alot of LS/VTEC's in my opinion but we all know I'm biased when it comes to all motor cars

[White98LS]

Yeah what do you want to do with the car? Daily driving? Drag? Auto-x? What do you think would be "fast enough" for you?

[Gen3Project]

Reliable daily driver with a little weekend warrior.

[CRVTEC0WNZJ00]

I just want a street car that can run really bad ass times in the 1320 all motor when I change it from street to race mode, plus I'd like it to do alittle road racing...and I don't think anything is fast enough for me, I think i just need to get a Busa and turbocharge it.

[White98LS]

Originally posted by Gen3Project
Reliable daily driver with a little weekend warrior.

Well let's put it this way: what kind of 1/4 mile times do you want to run? Do you place more importance on midrange grunt or top end power? Also what's "weekend warrior" mean?

[CRVTEC0WNZJ00]

I think what he means by weekend warrior is for weekend races, street or strip I dunno which one but its for weekend drags none the less

[Gen3Project]

Goal; strong performance 4500 RPM thru redline (stock redline to be maintained). Tuning won't be done for max HP but the best overall curve.


Just looking for good strong all around performance with some track. Not concerned with strip at all. 4500k peak torque and peak hp around 5,500-6k.

[mike_sho]

Are you talking about a JDM DC Sport Header?

If your going for just a standard DC I would just get a greddy header , they are slightly higher in quality & performance.

Not sure if its available for your car. But I would give it a look.

Then for the CAI, I would get the V2 aem.

For the high flow cat get a 2.5inch and a 2.5inch exhaust.

FPR and guage is kinda a waste....you cant really tune with that. Get a fuel controller , you can find them cheap on ebay and what not. Along with the 2.5inch exhaust / hf cat.

Then you can go and get some dyno tuning.

Fuel controllers are much better than fuel pressure regulators. Even more so I would just contact hondata and see what they can do for you , for around the same price of a controller you can get a nice hondata system, they can do a lot.

Then you can have set redlines , and power where you want it.

[CRVTEC0WNZJ00]

FPR and gauge does add bling like in alex's engine bay and AEBS fuel rail and a nice FPR and gauge with stainless lines will look massive bling in my engine bay, plus it is a helpful tool to some people fuel controllers are nice and I have Hondata S200 and VAFC...but FPR and gauge is a necessity to me. Since your looking for midrange I'd personally get an ITR motor swap, or you could just beef up the LS like white98LS did he has an excelent setup that I actually admire mang. and if your not concerned with balls to the wall performance don't pay much attention to what I said about LS/VTEC and SMSP header and what not

[White98LS]

Well here's my dyno, a very similar setup to the one you're talking about:


I really don't think a 2.5" header collector/cat/exhaust is necessary, 2.25" or 60mm (2.36") should be just fine. Although you also probably wouldn't lose much/any power with a 2.5" (maybe a bit in the low end), and if you wanted to do more serious mods later you'd be set. Your call.

If you want something similar to my setup but it's not quite enough, and you don't want to do the VTEC conversion... a guy on another site had almost exactly my identical setup, making an almost identical dyno plot and numbers. He slapped on a stock B20 (Honda CR-V, about $600-800 with low miles complete) block and made a consistent 20whp+ from 4000rpm to redline (still stock redline I believe). He ended up with 175whp and 140wtq, from a daily driven fully streetable non-VTEC. That's 10-15whp and 30wtq more than a stock Type R - with peak torque at something like 4k instead of 7500.

Now you know what I'm saving up to do this summer.

[mike_sho]

Originally posted by CGCivicSiT
FPR and gauge does add bling like in alex's engine bay and AEBS fuel rail and a nice FPR and gauge with stainless lines will look massive bling in my engine bay, plus it is a helpful tool to some people fuel controllers are nice and I have Hondata S200 and VAFC...but FPR and gauge is a necessity to me. Since your looking for midrange I'd personally get an ITR motor swap, or you could just beef up the LS like white98LS did he has an excelent setup that I actually admire mang. and if your not concerned with balls to the wall performance don't pay much attention to what I said about LS/VTEC and SMSP header and what not

So you have a hondata s200 , VAFC and FPR all installed on the car????? Then the fpr was a neccesity?

I really find this hard to believe. Because one Hondata s200 is a fuel tunable ECU , why would you want to try to adjust your hondata adjustable ecu.

VAFC is normally known to not produce as much power, because its piggy backing. You can just turn one on with no setting changes and it normally saps away some power.

Then finally you can adjust fuel pressure with both the above. So just manually dumping more pressure overall with an fpr is kinda the old way and it more or less giving one part of your rev range probably more fuel than it needs and not enough in another. Stock fuel rail can flow just fine, so thats kinda a waste as well.

Most jdm cars come with 2.5inch exhausts stock. The outlet on most cats are meant for 2.5 , you can locate a lot of 2.5 exhausts for cheap on ebay. I wouldnt say its neccesary , but its the norm if you want to create horsepower.

Isnt that the goal here or are we just talking.

[White98LS]

Well the Hondata and S-AFC don't actually increase fuel pressure, they merely increase the amount that the injectors spray. With the S-AFC, since it's a piggy-back system that's merely "tricking" the ECU into thinking there's more air coming in, over 13-14% positive fuel the ECU detects a boost situation and cuts power... so if you want more than 13-14% more fuel than stock (my fuel pressure is a good 30-40% over stock, leaned out with the S-AFC at some points but not all) then you need the FPR as well.

The Hondata doesn't have this 13-14% limitation since it's a stand-alone ECU, but still you're only controlling how long the injectors spray - not the rate at which they spray while they're open. That's what the FPR is for and why you still need one. They're only $95 with a guage anyway if you get a B&M.