Supercharger and ECU ? for my GSR - Honda Forum / Acura Forum

B.Seriously · 10-06-2008, 10:45 PM

Hey! I'm planning on getting a JRSC for my '01 integra gsr. I know with that I need to plan on getting a VAFC and do something with the ECU. I don't know much about the ECU except that I need to change from an OBD2 to an OBD1... I think. Something about a harness...? Idk if i buy a new chip or just a converter, I'm not sure how it works... I definitely need some assistance when it comes to the ECU so please help!!
Also, is there anything else I will need to modify with a supercharger?
Thanks!

CapnToll · 10-07-2008, 04:49 PM

Ditch the VAFC idea, it's really only a crutch and requires you hack into your ECU. You need to get an OBD1 VTEC ECU, and get an OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness. Then find yourself a tuner who can tune OBD1 ECUs.

Check out phearable.net to get yourself a complete list of what you need to change to OBD1 (you could purchase it from them as well if you like...I did, and was satisfied). They will ask for your "plans", and will put a REALLY generic tune on your ECU chip. This is meant to get you from the shop to the tuner without blowing up. Long term, you need to tune your new OBD1 ECU. Get to know Uberdata or Crome or Neptune etc etc. Find a tuner in your area, and they'll tell you what they like to use....doesn't change anything for you, they will have all the software, you just need to bring your car and supercharger installed along with your newly installed OBD1 ECU!

Supercharging is much more simple than turbocharging. You will need the supercharger, and pulley of your choice (stock is usually around 6psi of boost...not sure what that usually equals in whp gain on that JRSC), bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, and adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (optional, but makes it easier for your tuner). To really let your motor breathe, upgrading to quality Intake/Header/Exhaust/Cat would yield big gains.

Other than that, invest in some good tires, or it will be all for nothing haha. Once you've done some more research, we can get into what sized injectors, what size fuel pump etc etc to get, and some more details on what tuning is all about. Oh, and colder plugs would be safer, helping to eliminate the chance of detonation....another thing we can get into if you're unsure about it.

Edit: Oh, and if you find a jackpot of JRSCs, let me know, I'm on the lookout for a non-VTEC one to fit my B18B.

B.Seriously · 10-07-2008, 06:16 PM

You are amazing thank you! So first step is get the jrsc in and the OBD2 and harness... then tune it... then all the extras like fuel pump ets.? I've been checking out the Phearable website and it looks like they have everything I need including all the extras after the tune except the actual sc! Which is great. Did you get all your stuff from this site?

CapnToll · 10-07-2008, 07:00 PM

I got my OBD1 ECU (P28), OBD2-OBD1 conversion Harness, and basemap tune from them. They put on a tune that "worked" for similar setups on other cars. For me, it happened to be a bit too lean, but it still got me to the tuner safely.

You need to get everything installed first before you tune (in many cases, the tuner is also the builder, so you don't even have to move your car...but find a dyno nearest you).

The tuner will take the chip in your ECU, and start burning information onto it just like a CD-RW burn. The better the tuner....the less he/she has to keep burning and reburning before you guys get it perfect (Air/Fuel ratio is perfect across the powerband, ignition timing is great, motor is running well, and you're making the most power).

Expensive tuning paraphernalia like Hondata and AEM just let you tune live without needing to burn...test...burn...test etc etc. Not worth the $400 or $600 vs. free lol in my opinion.

Get yourself a good Air/Fuel gauge and boost gauge as well (at the least). This way, you can monitor everything, and make sure you don't blow up (in the case that you start running really lean, or start to over boost). When you're ready to start buying things, you'll have to be careful in selecting gauges just like other parts....they go from really bang on the number....to pretty crappy readings (based on the sensor, not just the gauge readout).

daveb91 · 10-07-2008, 07:27 PM

First thing when buying a JRSC, get rid of all the gimicks JR uses for fueling. Ditch the FMU, relays etc etc.... then buy some 450 inj and contact xenocron or phearable for a base tune and help for chipping and OBd2-Obd1 harnesses. For the free tune programs look into a Ostrich for on the fly tuning without constant burning.

CapnToll · 10-07-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveb91

First thing when buying a JRSC, get rid of all the gimicks JR uses for fueling. Ditch the FMU, relays etc etc.... then buy some 450 inj and contact xenocron or phearable for a base tune and help for chipping and OBd2-Obd1 harnesses. For the free tune programs look into a Ostrich for on the fly tuning without constant burning.

x2 on the Ostrich if it's in your budget. Although I don't think it's 100% proven for long term use keeping the Ostrich in your car all the time like some people say.

JRSCs actually come with their own vacuum driven FMUs? If you don't want theirs, then just do as I suggested and get your own adjustable FPR. But, just like many turbo kits, the FMUs themselves are just fine....it's the people who use the FMUs as the ONLY means of tuning, that get into big big big troubles.

B.Seriously · 10-08-2008, 07:58 PM

i talked with a guy from tcperformance today and he did push the hondata s300. i went along with it to get the estimates and we came to a total around 4710... thats for the high boost JRSC (6, 8, or 11psi - and actually saves me 200 bucks which is weird...) which comes with the injectors and s300, the fuel pump, install, and tune... yea... so the whole set up is around that. obviously I've never gotten a sc, so would this be a total rip off or a pretty good deal...?

CapnToll · 10-08-2008, 08:34 PM

Depends on what price you can find a JRSC for online.

Injectors, Fuel Pump, Bigger pulley, Colder plugs, and plug wires shouldn't take you much over $500.00 ($320 for 440cc RC injectors, $60 for Walbro 255 pump, $20 for plugs, $80 for wires, don't know about bigger pulleys).

Dyno time and tuning could easily hit $400. So you're at about $1000 before install labour, and the price of the supercharger itself. So you can do the math with the SC you find, and see if it's worth it. S300 is $5-600 itself as compared to the COMPLETELY suitable $0 OBD1 chip tuning (most tuner's don't even charge for a new chip if you need one).

So it's really up to you if you want to wait out better prices, or just have it all done at once from one place. Don't know how big your wallet is lol. That said, these superchargers were around $4000 when they first came out, but it's almost impossible to find brand new ones these days...and used ones can be found for under $1000.

B.Seriously · 10-09-2008, 10:00 PM

here's new information... i called another shop today and they don't work with JRSCs anymore because they're kinda faulty. they work at first but long term they don't last as long as they should. belts break and what not... so out of curiosity i asked him about a turbo instead lol. i hope what he said about JRSCs is wrong cause that kinda ruins my plans lol... ugh. although a turbo IS pretty sexy... =P

CapnToll · 10-10-2008, 06:02 AM

Well, as far as my current knowledge of the JRSCs, I've never heard of them failing when they've been installed new, and maintained correctly. I HAVE heard of old used ones that have been neglected failing. I've never gone out of my way to search around all the Honda forums for long term reviews....probably something you should do if you're worried.

As far as turbos....yes...they are quite sexilicous....but for all the builds I've been around/involved with, I could never recommend turbocharging your 100% daily driver that you need every single day, no exception. You need to have access to another car because no matter how good the build (you may never run, and should never with a good tune run into engine or reliability trouble), you will always have dumb stuff creep up that needs a days work on. Whether you're starting to belch blue smoke, spark plugs are going, suspension parts are getting tired from the abuse on the front geometry etc etc.

I can see a SC on a 7 day a week daily driver as when you break it down...all a SC is, is a glorified intake manifold on a really good tune, with a slightly upgraded fuel system. Now, if you can't find good condition or new JRSC twin screws.....you may look into their (or Vortech's) centrifugal SCs. They're still superchargers run off the crank, but instead of twin screws compressing the air, you have half a turbocharger whose turbine is being spun by a belt off the crank (rather than by exhaust gases like a normal turbo) making a much more efficient pound of boost than the conventional SC.

So, if this is your project toy car, then by all means, turbo that thing up and it will probably end up being cheaper if you do your homework....and you'll get a lot more power out of the same boost levels. With the JRSC, I wouldn't worry too much about you even getting close to the 300whp limit of the B18 on stock parts.

yellowrexsi · 10-10-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.Seriously

here's new information... i called another shop today and they don't work with JRSCs anymore because they're kinda faulty. they work at first but long term they don't last as long as they should. belts break and what not... so out of curiosity i asked him about a turbo instead lol. i hope what he said about JRSCs is wrong cause that kinda ruins my plans lol... ugh. although a turbo IS pretty sexy... =P

Don't take your car to that shop and have anything done
They clearly have no clue what they are talking about. A supercharged dd is far better than a turbo dd. My integra has been supercharged for 5 years and 70,000 miles. I just 2 weeks ago changed all my belts and tensioners. I was long over do on changing them, and still didn't have any problems. My play car is supercharged too, I have had some problems with belts comimg loose on that car, but its a d series motor, (the belt setup is different than a b, and alot poorer designed) and I rev it alot higher than you ever will.
Oh and 4710 is kinda steep. the kit on jr's website is 3700. They are getting the kit from jr for probably about 3200.
Fuel pump install takes about 20 minutes, you don't have to drop the tank, ecu install takes about 5 minutes, supercharger install takes less than 5 hours.
So if they get $100 and hour, you are at $500-$600 labor for installs. Then a tune, better be less than $500, puts you close to 4700 if they sell the sc to you at price. (which is a dickhead move).
I personally would just install the kit myself, they are simple to put on and jr's instructions are great. just my thoughts

CapnToll · 10-10-2008, 08:03 AM

Well said. SC DD ftw. What B motor do you have SC'd? I think you can still find brand new in box B18C1 JRSCs, but definitely not for my B18B. JR told me to look elsewhere for a B18B JRSC...and I doubt any of them exist still in box. If they haven't stopped already, JR will be soon for selling the twin screw design, they've gone over to centrifugal in a partnership with another company.

yellowrexsi · 10-10-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnToll

Well said. SC DD ftw. What B motor do you have SC'd? I think you can still find brand new in box B18C1 JRSCs, but definitely not for my B18B. JR told me to look elsewhere for a B18B JRSC...and I doubt any of them exist still in box. If they haven't stopped already, JR will be soon for selling the twin screw design, they've gone over to centrifugal in a partnership with another company.

It was a b18b. I actually bought it brand new for 1800, jr was having a blow out on them.
Jr hasn't really had there shit together since Oscar Jackson left. They still are a great company, but not what they used to be.

WVU97GS-R · 10-10-2008, 08:29 AM

a sc is not an air pump. its the same exact thing as a turbo. they are air compressos. only difference is how they are powered. just as reliable as the other. put the same wear and tear on the engine as the other. jrsc run superlow boost with tiny compressos. it'd be just as reliable and cheaper than a jrsc. only difference is what your powerband would look like. the is also easier to upgrade and cheaper fix when it breaks