Replaced timing belt - head gasket blew, now pinging - Honda Forum / Acura Forum

ochdx · 04-14-2006, 08:38 AM

Ok, so let me try and make a long story short. Last week I've noticed that my 1995 Civic DX is overheating, and it turned out that it was low on antifreeze because the water pump was leaking. So, now that it has 145k miles, and last time I did the timing belt was at 80k, I decided to replace everything.

So I bought the following - water pump, timing belt, tensioner, cam seal and valve cover gasket. Brought all of that to a repair shop next door from where I work and let them do the repair. So the next morning the owner of the shops calls me, and tells me that he did the repair, started the car, let it warm up and it started blowing white smoke out of the exaust and that the head gasket is screwed.

So now I have my doubts whether the headgasket coincidentally blew on his own, or he did something wrong while doing the repair, but whatever, I can't prove anything, so I tell him to replace it. He quoted me $550 (on top of timing belt/water pump replacement), and he would replace the head gasket, have the head shaved, replace spark plugs, thermostat, oil and whatever else that's involved. So I let him do it, and he calls me today, tells me the car runs great, etc. The only thing he says it was pinging, so he said they adjusted it so that it wouldn't ping but he recommends using premium fuel.

So I didn't pay much attention to that because I've always ran on regular fuel without any problems, and I figure he just simply retarded the timing so it wouldnt ping. But now when I got on my way home, the car was pinging like mad. His shop was already closed, so I wont be able to get the car back to him until tomorrow, but this is bugging me now. The car wouldn't ping in neutral no matter what the RPMs are, but put it in gear and it pings at the slightest tap of gas at low RPMs. I don't know if it would ping at higher RPMs because I'm afraid to let it rev, but it seems like it pings harder the higher the RPMs are.

So I have 1/4 tank of regular 87 octane fuel in the, and so I stopped by a Sunoco and filled it up with 94 octane fuel, and after it was still pinging just as much. I've only drove about 20 miles after the fill up, so I'm wondering maybe the engine is still running on old fuel inside the fuel rail.

Other than the pinging, the engine seems to run well, it starts up great, theres no shaking, no hesitation, no smoke, although it might be running a little reach because I smell gasoline in the exaust fumes. Also, when I popped the hood, I felt like the engine is generating unusually large amount of heat - it's not overheating, but dissipating a lot of heat, which is often caused by detonation. I wonder what the hell can be causing it - so much stuff has been done to the engine that it's going to be tough to detect what's causing the problem.

The first thing I'm gonna have him do is retard the timing as much as he can and see if it still pings, but I doubt it will be that simple. First of all if it was just the timing the problem would most likely go away or reduce when I put higher octane fuel in, and also the engine would ping in neutral. He probably missed up something within the head, and if he did, I'm going to try and hold him responsible. In the meantime, I would appreciate any feedback from you guys.

ochdx · 04-14-2006, 08:39 AM

Update:

Ok, so I brought it back to him and so far he's unable to detect the problem. Right now the timing is fully retarded, if we try and advance it one bit it starts pinging more. It doesnt ping in neutral, and it doesn't ping at high rpms, it only pings at low steady rpms. The idle is smooth, and the theres no pinging when I rev it up in neutral. The freaking guy is trying to tell me that this is normal, that I shouldn't worry about it, but I told him FU, and I told him to fix it. I'm furious right now.

fastgsr95 · 05-11-2006, 02:32 PM

They should of but the timing belt on right it sounds like the timing on the engine is wrong and when u said u were retarting and advancing was that on the distributor?

hobie237 · 05-11-2006, 04:11 PM

1. Sounds like you were leaking coolant not only due to a bum headgasket but a warped head. You may have overheated at some point or whatever.

2. He had to shave the head. How much did he take off? If it was milled too much in the process of getting it straight, your compression has been raised. Use premium and see what happens.

ATISTANG · 05-12-2006, 04:43 AM

Are you 100% sure it is pinging?
If it is then I agree with hobie that they may have taken to much off the head and now your C/R is off the charts. Do a compression test and see what numbers your get

fastgsr95 · 05-12-2006, 09:09 AM

Most machine shops around here aren't that dumb plus it was most likely his first time to get the head decked

ATISTANG · 05-12-2006, 09:15 AM

you would be surprized on how much they will take off a head if they don't know any better.
Whats the deal with 95s and head gaskets anyways I have done 3 95 d15s and I had two other friends that had the same year and engine they both had head gaskets go right around 150k, my d15 still has the original head gasket and it has 230k on the odometer

BurntRubber87 · 07-03-2006, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATISTANG

you would be surprized on how much they will take off a head if they don't know any better.
Whats the deal with 95s and head gaskets anyways I have done 3 95 d15s and I had two other friends that had the same year and engine they both had head gaskets go right around 150k, my d15 still has the original head gasket and it has 230k on the odometer

Yeah..thats REALLY weird..my Hatch was a 95 and I bought it with a blown headgasket...maybe it was a defect in those year hdg's..But anyway I am gonna jump on the bandwagon and say that the head was warped so bad they had to take ALOT off, and bump the compression way up..or the cam timing is advanced abit because when I did my headgasket, I had my cam timing a tooth off, advanced and it pinged like crazy and overheated..I loosened up the timing belt, popped it back a tooth and the car ran perfect.

ginyu6869 · 07-04-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurntRubber87

Yeah..thats REALLY weird..my Hatch was a 95 and I bought it with a blown headgasket...maybe it was a defect in those year hdg's..But anyway I am gonna jump on the bandwagon and say that the head was warped so bad they had to take ALOT off, and bump the compression way up..or the cam timing is advanced abit because when I did my headgasket, I had my cam timing a tooth off, advanced and it pinged like crazy and overheated..I loosened up the timing belt, popped it back a tooth and the car ran perfect.

Any CEL's... I would check the sensors for proper voltage.. (TPS, MAP)..

HondatechAV6 · 08-03-2006, 08:13 PM

give us an update!

sounds most likely like they botched the job and the belt is a tooth or more off.

joe

mberndt · 08-04-2006, 07:47 AM

I would tend to agree here, if they shaved the head too much it would cause the C/R to get higher...
But why did you let him shave the head? was he sure that it needed it? It sounds like he was trying to make some more $$ on the job by getting it shaved at a shop and charging you extra...
Shady deal...
I don't think the engine timing would make it ping, detonation is caused by too little fuel, spark advance, or too high C/R. If the ignition timing is advanced too far though it will ping.

Do a compression test and see what you're getting, if the C/R went up, then the test will reveal higher than normal compression...

Update!!

ATISTANG · 08-04-2006, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mberndt

I would tend to agree here, if they shaved the head too much it would cause the C/R to get higher...
But why did you let him shave the head? was he sure that it needed it? It sounds like he was trying to make some more $$ on the job by getting it shaved at a shop and charging you extra...
Shady deal...
I don't think the engine timing would make it ping, detonation is caused by too little fuel, spark advance, or too high C/R. If the ignition timing is advanced too far though it will ping.

Do a compression test and see what you're getting, if the C/R went up, then the test will reveal higher than normal compression...

Update!!

Most of the time when you blow a head gasket you will just go ahead and have it milled, a lot of people are to lazy to check it with a strait edge and feeler gauge and some people don't even know that your can check it that way. They probably just assumed that it would need it, now they guy running the mill may have taken way to much off. Even if he did, you could run a higher octane to take care of it.

savier2k2 · 08-08-2006, 08:21 AM

you mentioned he installed new spark plugs? if all else fails make sure they're the right plugs of the correct heat range - if it's too hot of a plug that could be causing your detonation.