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Old 07-06-2006, 04:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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whats bore and stroke on a b16a1???

whats bore and stroke on a b16a1???
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Old 07-07-2006, 04:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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81mm 77mm respectively.


But a google could have given you those results. So easy to get, yet no effort was put into looking for it.
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Old 07-09-2006, 12:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by female four
81mm 77mm respectively.


But a google could have given you those results. So easy to get, yet no effort was put into looking for it.
nah i looked but for some reason i found different numbers thanx
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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the b 16 and gsr have 87 mm stroke with the gsr having longer rods for better rod ratio and to yeild a 1.8 liters and all b series have a 81 mm bore with the acception of the b20 wich is 84 mm bore and 89 mm stroke, really just a bigger bore l/s engine for l/s is 89mm stroke too
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95turbob20hatch
the b 16 and gsr have 87 mm stroke with the gsr having longer rods for better rod ratio and to yeild a 1.8 liters
wrong


Quote:
Originally Posted by female four
81mm 77mm respectively.


But a google could have given you those results. So easy to get, yet no effort was put into looking for it.
right
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Old 07-18-2006, 07:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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respectively i meant 77 and 79, but all the rest is so true. if u ever look at the diffrence in the b 16 and b18 and gsr the block is a half inch taller for the longer stroke to allow a better stroke to rod ratio. just like the stroker kits can come wirh a solid piece of aluminum (deck plate) that can be welded on top and decked to provide proper rod to stroke ratio. if the ratio is to far a lean the rods will fail.i have a book that u can get at the parts store or order called honda/acura engine performance, how to modify d,b,and h series honda/acura motors for street and drag racing performance.. it is an HP books product by mike kojima.
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Old 07-20-2006, 03:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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In case someone missed it, which I'm sure everyone did... I posted the specs in that thread.

The B18 of course will have a taller deck (taller block for those of you who don't know) compared to the B16. And the B18c will have longer rods compared to the B18a/b simply because its stroke is longer, therefore requiring more legth to equal ou twhat is in the B18a/b.
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Old 07-20-2006, 06:41 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95turbob20hatch
respectively i meant 77 and 79, but all the rest is so true. if u ever look at the diffrence in the b 16 and b18 and gsr the block is a half inch taller for the longer stroke to allow a better stroke to rod ratio. just like the stroker kits can come wirh a solid piece of aluminum (deck plate) that can be welded on top and decked to provide proper rod to stroke ratio. if the ratio is to far a lean the rods will fail.i have a book that u can get at the parts store or order called honda/acura engine performance, how to modify d,b,and h series honda/acura motors for street and drag racing performance.. it is an HP books product by mike kojima.
GSR block is taller???? Umm I don't think so...
The B-series DOHC VTEC motors are IDENTICAL except for the stroke of the motors. The B16 has a 77mm stroke and an 81mm bore giving 1595cc. The B18C is the same except for the stroke of the motor. The stroke is longer, but this has no effect on the size of the block, it's all inside the motor.
The stroke to rod ratio is determined by the 1. crankshaft and 2. rods. It is not effected by a deck plate, and it can not be used to provide a proper rod to stroke ratio. Only the length of the rod and the matching crankshaft will affect the Rod/Stroke ratio.
The rods will fail if they are stressed too much, by high rpms or by being too big (massive=more mass) (this is because of inertia, remember physics?). This is why a B18C is slightly smaller than the LS B18A/B motors, 1795cc vs 1834cc, because in order to accomodate the high rpms (8000+) the B18C needs a lower Rod/Stroke ratio to limit the inertia. The longer, more massive LS rods have more mass and more inertia making it harder to accelerate and move the rods at high-rpms. In addition, the B18C motor needs (and comes with from the factory) a girdle plate, to hold the bottom end together when the rods are rotating at 8000+ rpms. B16 motors do NOT have a girdle plate, because the rods are shorter, making them lighter, and therefore they have less inertia, and won't stress the bottom end like the long rods of the B18C.
That is why it is not advisable to rev very high on an LS VTEC motor, rev too high, and you throw a rod out the side of your block, :eek
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mberndt
GSR block is taller???? Umm I don't think so...
The B-series DOHC VTEC motors are IDENTICAL except for the stroke of the motors. The B16 has a 77mm stroke and an 81mm bore giving 1595cc. The B18C is the same except for the stroke of the motor. The stroke is longer, but this has no effect on the size of the block, it's all inside the motor.
The stroke to rod ratio is determined by the 1. crankshaft and 2. rods. It is not effected by a deck plate, and it can not be used to provide a proper rod to stroke ratio. Only the length of the rod and the matching crankshaft will affect the Rod/Stroke ratio.
The rods will fail if they are stressed too much, by high rpms or by being too big (massive=more mass) (this is because of inertia, remember physics?). This is why a B18C is slightly smaller than the LS B18A/B motors, 1795cc vs 1834cc, because in order to accomodate the high rpms (8000+) the B18C needs a lower Rod/Stroke ratio to limit the inertia. The longer, more massive LS rods have more mass and more inertia making it harder to accelerate and move the rods at high-rpms. In addition, the B18C motor needs (and comes with from the factory) a girdle plate, to hold the bottom end together when the rods are rotating at 8000+ rpms. B16 motors do NOT have a girdle plate, because the rods are shorter, making them lighter, and therefore they have less inertia, and won't stress the bottom end like the long rods of the B18C.
That is why it is not advisable to rev very high on an LS VTEC motor, rev too high, and you throw a rod out the side of your block, :eek
uhhh actually the b16a is in fact shorter than a b18 by about 7mm. the b16b on the other hand is the same size as a b18.
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy
uhhh actually the b16a is in fact shorter than a b18 by about 7mm. the b16b on the other hand is the same size as a b18.
Really? I could be wrong, but answer me these questions...
First off, what engine r u talking about, B18 (LS) or B18C (GSR)??
I'm talking about the B18C.
If that's the case, then why does the B16A in my EG hit the hood just like my buddy's B18C EG??
Also, as stated in the Haynes manual for civic and integra, the B-series blocks are IDENTICAL and the only differences between the B16 and B18C motors are the stroke. Where on the B18C is this extra 7mm?
As for the heads, the GSR has a different combustion chamber design and different Intake manifold (w/ different bolt pattern) than the B16 head.

As for what female four said, it doesn't make any sense. The B18A/B has a longer stroke than the B18C, giving more displacement. Not the other way around.
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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all b18a/b/c, b20b/z, b16b and also b17 if im not mistaken have the same deck height. there are a few threads on h-t were guys actually measured the difference between these and a b16a which came out to be shorter.
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Old 07-22-2006, 04:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mberndt
Really? I could be wrong, but answer me these questions...
As for what female four said, it doesn't make any sense. The B18A/B has a longer stroke than the B18C, giving more displacement. Not the other way around.
You just can't assume...

B-series stroke:

B16a/b = 77mm
B17A = 81.4 mm
B18C1/5 = 87.2 mm
B18 A/B & B20B/Z = 89.0 mm
B20A = 95.0 mm


OEM Rod Length

B16a/b = 134mm
B17 = 132mm
B18C1/5 = 137.9 mm
B18A/B or B20B/Z = 137 mm


Rod ratio is = length of rod divide by stroke.


Here is calculation for block deck height:


Quote:
Originally Posted by mberndt
in order to accomodate the high rpms (8000+) the B18C needs a lower Rod/Stroke ratio to limit the inertia.
Got it backwards, you need a higher rod ratio to rev higher, not a lower one. With info above of GSR rod length and stroke, GSR has a rod ratio of 137.9mm / 87.2mm = 1.58 rod ratio.

Where as the B18a/b is 137mm / 89mm = 1.53 rod ratio. So you see, GSR has a higher rod ratio. The B16 has an even higher rod ratio of 134mm / 77mm = 1.74 rod ratio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mberndt
The longer, more massive LS rods have more mass and more inertia making it harder to accelerate and move the rods at high-rpms. In addition, the B18C motor needs (and comes with from the factory) a girdle plate, to hold the bottom end together when the rods are rotating at 8000+ rpms. B16 motors do NOT have a girdle plate, because the rods are shorter, making them lighter, and therefore they have less inertia, and won't stress the bottom end like the long rods of the B18C.
That is why it is not advisable to rev very high on an LS VTEC motor, rev too high, and you throw a rod out the side of your block, :eek
First off, it has very little to do with weight, and more of r/s ratio. The B18a/b rod is shorter than the B18c's. It is shorter and the stroke longer makes it rotate to the sides more and the stress point is on the sides of the rods.

Since the B18c's have a shorter stroke and longer rod length, the stress point of the sides is less. Take the easy to understand illustration at hand. B18c on the left, B18a/b on the right.



With a shorter stroke, you get less downward force on the rod itselft at high RPM's. The B18a/b, having the longer stroke, pushes the rod out soo far that once the bang from the engine force pushes the piston down, it'll probably snap pbefore a shorter stroke engine does on its rod.

Now take into the consideration of having a longer rod. Again, take this easy to understand illustration for ease of sake. Again, B18c on the left and B18a/b on the right.



The same case is held here. With having a longer rod length, there is less chance to breake the rod itself because its has a narrower path rather than snapping at the red arrows.

So with both the benifits of having a shorter stroke and longer rod length, the B18c, canm rev higher safely than a B18a/b. Had the B18a/b had the same rod ratio as the B18c's, it can easily rev that high as well without worrying of a snapped rod.

Dam that was too much info to absorb at once... even I'm having a hard time keeping track of what happened here...Hope the info wasn't too scattered and a loss of interest.
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Old 07-24-2006, 01:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=female four]You just can't assume...

B-series stroke:
First off, it has very little to do with weight, and more of r/s ratio. The B18a/b rod is shorter than the B18c's. It is shorter and the stroke longer makes it rotate to the sides more and the stress point is on the sides of the rods.QUOTE]

Yeah I did have the rod/stroke ratio backwards before, but my theory is indeed correct.
While the R/S ratio will move the contact point more to the side of the rods, It has everything to do with weight. A longer rod has more mass, which means more weight that must be rotated. Yes the longer rods have a considerable effect on the ability to rev high, but inertia has more of an effect...
1/2mv^2 is the equation for kinetic energy, and here you can see that mass is directly proportional to the energy produced, while the velocity is indirectly proportional. hence, the energy at 3k rpms is only 1/4 of the energy at 6k rpms... so as the revs get higher, the kinetic energy will exponentially increase... So, a small amount of mass will contribute a large amount of energy at high rpms... So yes it does have much to do with the weight of the rods as well as the length.
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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You are focusing too much on weight. Its only factor is in reciprocating (ability to turn). The idea behind reving high is the ability to withstand the pressure pushing down on the pistons while the spark plug ignites.

Weight has a factor in spinning, but little to do with something breaking with thousands of pounds of pressure upon the combustion stroke. If that rod does not hold, it will break regardless. And with a rod at those angles compared to a B18c, its a lot more likely to break. And that is why the B18c's can rev higher safely as opposed to its non-VTEC counterpart.
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