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Old 02-16-2011, 05:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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b20 swap into 93 del sol

i have a 93 del sol. i want to swap in a b20 bottom end , not sure if i should go with the b or z model. i also want a different transmission and head, the car is a daily driver, and i want no boost. all motor. transmission and head suggestions? stock head until i have funds to make it a v?
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It has the same head as the ls stock just diff intake and exhaust mani. I cant mem right off but I think the compression is slightly diff from b to z. Not much though. The b is usually cheaper and easier to find. If your goin to just run it stock for a while I would personally get the b. I had a b20b in a 94 teg and one in a 93 hatch loved it.

As for the tranny if your goin all motor go with a gsr, itr, or si tranny. Si or itr would be best. Closer gear ratios and lower final drive.

Also with it being stock for now you will need a intake and exhaust mani for a b18b ls motor. Unless you get the jdm b20b from the wagon. It already comes with the ls intake and exhaust mani's on it.

Mine was a b20b with a jdm itr tranny, act clutch 2600, injen intake, comptech header, and high flow cat, custom exhaust. Same setup in both the teg and hatch. I was beatin almost everything I raced. I beat gsr, itr, and h22 swapped hatches and tegs, a JRSC h22 lude with big boost pulley, 5.0 and 4.6 puss stangs and more.

I almost went that route in my Sol instead of boost.

You can get a jdm b20b from Pacific Engines in Atlanta Ga for 900. At one time importers where sellin them buy one get one free just pay shipping.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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B20/Vtecs aren't any good with stock B20 internals, the pistons are weak and the compression is way too low. If you get aftermarket internals to up the compression you'll be fine. I'd run a B18A1, very cheap, throw in some B16 pistons, you'll have good compression. The walls are better in the B18 over the thin B20 walls. You can pick up a B18A1 for $200 to $300. Add another $100 to $150 for P30 pistons, throw in the LS/Vtec kit, and a GSR trans, and you'll roughly be at the price for some B20's.

Get a GSR trans over the Si trans. GSR's are more forgiving for gas, offers better power use, you'll reach higher speeds, and they are stronger internally than the Si. The Si has brittle gears, same with the LS trans. The ITR would be very good if you can afford one. If not, the GSR with a quaife LSD should run close to the price of the ITR, probably just a little bit cheaper depending on how much you spend on the trans.

As for the head, it is up to you, GSR for higher mid range, Si for higher top end. GSR offers slightly higher compression. ITR or Skunk2 intake manifold with a ITR or Skunk2 62mm throttle body, the ITR is 62mm. Throw in some Stage 1 cams or CTR cams, supertech valvetrain. Hytech or Bisimoto headers, most are the size of the JDM ITR header. Hytech are slightly larger than ITR, Bisi offers the highest gains and a kick ass look. Kiddracing has a nice header as well. Pick up a set of DSM 450 injectors, a high flow fuel rail, pressure regulator, Walbro fuel pump.

Get it tuned and you should be up around 200-210whp on a good tune. Larger cams will get you even higher. B20 build with the same compression ratio should be about 10-15wtq higher.

LS/Vtec w/ P30 pistons + that head combo = $3000 - $3500 build

B20/Vtec w/ Custom pistons + that head combo = $4200 - $4700
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legacyo13 View Post
B20/Vtecs aren't any good with stock B20 internals, the pistons are weak and the compression is way too low. If you get aftermarket internals to up the compression you'll be fine. I'd run a B18A1, very cheap, throw in some B16 pistons, you'll have good compression. The walls are better in the B18 over the thin B20 walls. You can pick up a B18A1 for $200 to $300. Add another $100 to $150 for P30 pistons, throw in the LS/Vtec kit, and a GSR trans, and you'll roughly be at the price for some B20's.

Get a GSR trans over the Si trans. GSR's are more forgiving for gas, offers better power use, you'll reach higher speeds, and they are stronger internally than the Si. The Si has brittle gears, same with the LS trans. The ITR would be very good if you can afford one. If not, the GSR with a quaife LSD should run close to the price of the ITR, probably just a little bit cheaper depending on how much you spend on the trans.

As for the head, it is up to you, GSR for higher mid range, Si for higher top end. GSR offers slightly higher compression. ITR or Skunk2 intake manifold with a ITR or Skunk2 62mm throttle body, the ITR is 62mm. Throw in some Stage 1 cams or CTR cams, supertech valvetrain. Hytech or Bisimoto headers, most are the size of the JDM ITR header. Hytech are slightly larger than ITR, Bisi offers the highest gains and a kick ass look. Kiddracing has a nice header as well. Pick up a set of DSM 450 injectors, a high flow fuel rail, pressure regulator, Walbro fuel pump.

Get it tuned and you should be up around 200-210whp on a good tune. Larger cams will get you even higher. B20 build with the same compression ratio should be about 10-15wtq higher.

LS/Vtec w/ P30 pistons + that head combo = $3000 - $3500 build

B20/Vtec w/ Custom pistons + that head combo = $4200 - $4700
not true. depends on which b20 and what vtec head you use. GSR head has smaller combustion chambers there for elevated compression. And they make higher compression b20's factory depending on the model. and they make plenty of power reliably with stock bottom end. ask 9400rpms. he builds b-series like it's his reason for living
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The compression bump still doesn't help much, its still in the low 9's:1 ratio. That sucks for all motor, it'd be like driving a 2.0 D series. They make good power if boosted yes, but for all motor, the internals suck. The LS has a better bottom end if he wants to really push an all motor setup. It is also easier to source parts for cheap with the LS. If you put a hole in the B20 piston, you'll be looking for a either another stock piston, or paying a good deal of money for a custom one. With the LS, you can use a B16A, B18A/B, and B18C's pistons, the only one you can't use is the B16B's. All I am saying is it's cheaper, and easier to do an LS/Vtec for all motor. The B20's will make more power with a matching compression, but again, that's almost triple the price of building the LS.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legacyo13 View Post
The compression bump still doesn't help much, its still in the low 9's:1 ratio. That sucks for all motor, it'd be like driving a 2.0 D series. They make good power if boosted yes, but for all motor, the internals suck. The LS has a better bottom end if he wants to really push an all motor setup. It is also easier to source parts for cheap with the LS. If you put a hole in the B20 piston, you'll be looking for a either another stock piston, or paying a good deal of money for a custom one. With the LS, you can use a B16A, B18A/B, and B18C's pistons, the only one you can't use is the B16B's. All I am saying is it's cheaper, and easier to do an LS/Vtec for all motor. The B20's will make more power with a matching compression, but again, that's almost triple the price of building the LS.
Quote:
B20B/B20Z

* 1999 - 2000 specs
* NON-VTEC
* Found in: USDM CRV as a B20Z, CR-V and Honda Orthia as a B20B
* Displacement: 1,973 cc (120.4 cu in)
* Power: 146 hp (109 kW) @ 6200 rpm
* Torque: 133 lbft (180 Nm) @ 4500 rpm
* Rod length: 137 mm (5.4 in)
* Compression: 9.6:1
* Bore: 84 mm (3.3 in)
* Stroke: 89 mm (3.5 in)
* Redline: 6700 rpm
A head gasket and a gsr head will give you a decent entry level compression bump. and make more power with less stress. and they rev just fine.


Quote:
B18B1

* NON-VTEC
* Found in:
o 1994-2001 Acura Integra "RS/LS/GS/SE" (DC4/DB7)
o 1992-1996 JDM Honda Domani (MA5)
o 1993-1994 JDM Honda Inta (DB7)
o 1996-1999 JDM Honda Orthia (EL1)
+ Displacement: 1,834 cc (111.9 cu in)
+ Compression: 9.2:1
+ Bore: 81 mm (3.2 in)
+ Stroke: 89 mm (3.5 in)
+ Rod Length: 137.01 mm (5.394")
+ Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.54
+ Power: 142 hp (106 kW) @ 6300 rpm & 130 ftlbf (180 Nm) @ 5200 rpm
+ Redline: 6800 rpm (7200 rpm on JDM Domani)
+ Rev Limit: 7200 rpm
+ Transmission: Y80/S80
+ JDM version is marked B18B on the block without any number.
+ JDM version has a compression 9.4:1 where the usdm version is 9.2:1.
+ JDM versions higher comprsion rating results in higher hp and tq levels than the usdm version.

the bottom end is the same. just bore is increased. they are the same motor for all intents and purposes except the b18b actually has the same comp ratio as early b20b's and less than newer b20b/z's


b20>b18

it's actually easier to build a b20b. you'll get more for your money and it's identical bottom ends save for the pistons. I don't know why everybody thinks their is a drastic difference between the too. And if i'm building a motor, i'm not using "stock" bottom end components from the same manufacturer. I'll upgrade. Your compression will actually be higher with a later generation b20 and the same with the first generation as an b18b
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You dont have to get custom pistons made you just get 84mm b18b, b18c, or b16a pistons.

They are readably available (or used to be when I was doin mine)

There are some early b20b with the 9.2:1 compression though.

Also I have seen many b20b/z with just I/H/E and ls ecu put down 135-140hp and 130-135trq at the wheels. They are trq monsters when compared to the other b-series motors.

Most of the stuff from the b20 and b18b are the same parts. Head, block(slightly bigger bore as stated), crank, rods etc. Even the cams between b20z and b18b are the same. The b18b/b20z has a slightly more aggressive exhaust cam over the b20b.

Now there is a higher flowing b20z/b head that is out there that has a port job and even more aggressive cams but its very hard to find. It is stamped P08 rather than p75.

Also some info I found out today on doin some research on the ITR it uses a b16 head. When they are goin down the assy line they put a green mark on so many and send them off to another line. There they get ported and then coated with some special coating(cant mem what it is atm) in the runners and get better valves more aggressive cams, stiffer springs, and stronger retainers.

Here is a quote from wikipedia on the head. Just thought it is some interesting info on the head.
The Type-R's head is a re-worked PR-3 head, with better valves, camshafts, stiffer valve springs and a red valve cover. During production, the B16A head would get a green marker line to signify a 'Hand porting'.....The intake valves were reshaped with a thinner stem and crown that reduced weight and improved flow. Stiffer valve springs resisted float on more aggressive camshafts.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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b16 vs type r head is old news. poor mans type r involves gsr block and b16 head.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yeah I know what your sayin. I just didnt realize it "IS" the same head just with a hand porting.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The 9.6:1 is the B20Z only, that B20B is the JDM one for the 99-01 years. The USDM B20B is 8.8:1, JDM had 9.2:1. A B20Z is hard to come by.

Plus the B20 pistons don't offer good valve relief like the LS pistons. The B20 is great to build, but the cost just isn't worth it. You'll be spending $1000+ more than you would with an LS. That price for just a few more lbs of torque isn't worth it.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by legacyo13 View Post
The 9.6:1 is the B20Z only, that B20B is the JDM one for the 99-01 years. The USDM B20B is 8.8:1, JDM had 9.2:1. A B20Z is hard to come by.

Plus the B20 pistons don't offer good valve relief like the LS pistons. The B20 is great to build, but the cost just isn't worth it. You'll be spending $1000+ more than you would with an LS. That price for just a few more lbs of torque isn't worth it.
what's your point? a simple piston swap will fix that and a gsr head. and increased displacement still puts it on par with a b18b and they have the same bottom end save for pistons. A few more lbs of tq maybe at stock level. but if you're building it the extra displacement does help to shift the power band down. 1000 dollars is nothing when honda stroker kits for .2 liters cost 3,000 usd. if you're concered with affordable power you wouldn't build an n/a honda.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legacyo13 View Post
The 9.6:1 is the B20Z only, that B20B is the JDM one for the 99-01 years. The USDM B20B is 8.8:1, JDM had 9.2:1.
Sorry many but wrong again.


B20B
1996-1998 specs

NON-VTEC
Found in: USDM and JDM Honda CR-V, JDM Orthia, Stepwgn, S-MX
Displacement: 1,973 cc (120.4 cu in)
Power: 126 hp (94 kW)) @ 5400 rpm
Torque: 133 ftlbf (180 Nm) @ 4300 rpm
Rod length: 137 mm (5.4 in)
Compression: 8.8:1 or 9.2:1
Bore: 84 mm (3.3 in)
Stroke: 89 mm (3.5 in)
Redline: 6300 rpm
Fuel Consumption: City 9 km/L Hwy 14 km/L

B20B/B20Z
1999 - 2000 specs

NON-VTEC
Found in: USDM CRV as a B20Z, CR-V and Honda Orthia as a B20B
Displacement: 1,973 cc (120.4 cu in)
Power: 146 hp (109 kW) @ 6200 rpm
Torque: 133 lbft (180 Nm) @ 4500 rpm
Rod length: 137 mm (5.4 in)
Compression: 9.6:1
Bore: 84 mm (3.3 in)
Stroke: 89 mm (3.5 in)
Redline: 6700 rpm

This is the jdm b20b Orthia motor I had in both my hatch and my Teg.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WORPsol View Post
Sorry many but wrong again.


B20B
1996-1998 specs

NON-VTEC
Found in: USDM and JDM Honda CR-V, JDM Orthia, Stepwgn, S-MX
Displacement: 1,973 cc (120.4 cu in)
Power: 126 hp (94 kW)) @ 5400 rpm
Torque: 133 ftlbf (180 Nm) @ 4300 rpm
Rod length: 137 mm (5.4 in)
Compression: 8.8:1 or 9.2:1
Bore: 84 mm (3.3 in)
Stroke: 89 mm (3.5 in)
Redline: 6300 rpm
Fuel Consumption: City 9 km/L Hwy 14 km/L

B20B/B20Z
1999 - 2000 specs

NON-VTEC
Found in: USDM CRV as a B20Z, CR-V and Honda Orthia as a B20B
Displacement: 1,973 cc (120.4 cu in)
Power: 146 hp (109 kW) @ 6200 rpm
Torque: 133 lbft (180 Nm) @ 4500 rpm
Rod length: 137 mm (5.4 in)
Compression: 9.6:1
Bore: 84 mm (3.3 in)
Stroke: 89 mm (3.5 in)
Redline: 6700 rpm

This is the jdm b20b Orthia motor I had in both my hatch and my Teg.
What's wrong with what I said, the USDM B20Z and JDM 99-01 B20B is 9.6:1. And the USDM B20B is 8.8:1 while the 96-98 JDM B20B is 9.2:1. That's what I said.

But price for price, the LS would beat the B20 any day, rolling or from a stand still. Especially if he picks up a B18A1, which is the same and a lot cheaper than the B18B, if he is only after the block. The B18B also has a way to relieve pressure in the block where the B20 doesn't.

Torque is great, but if you spend the extra money you would have with an LS, you would have a higher whp and wtq monster. The LS is better for the price.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legacyo13 View Post
The 9.6:1 is the B20Z only, that B20B is the JDM one for the 99-01 years. The USDM B20B is 8.8:1, JDM had 9.2:1. A B20Z is hard to come by.

But price for price, the LS would beat the B20 any day, rolling or from a stand still.
Unless thats not what you meant. Thats how it read.

The second part I have to argue. My buddy was runnin a 94 ls teg with I/H/E and a 200hp Direct Port N2O. I helped Install it> I know it really was. He ran my teg with the b20/itr combo. He could not keep up. He openly admitted it also. We both had the same clutch and sim suspension setups. Now he would take me top end but off the line or from a roll he couldnt I would pull him. We found out one night after leavin the shop. We had to see what they would do.

And I dont think so ls/vtec vs b20vtec. The down fall to the b20 is the lateral force against the cylinder wall. It has a tendency to crack the cylinder walls in the center.

But also to that there is a guy in fl with a built b20/vtec on stock sleeves twistin 9800 with no block guard as they dont do anything anyways. Not in this setup anyways.
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