Some Kids Beating A Camaro Thing They Are The Shit

[gurusan]

Originally Posted by ksniperfox

while i agree, you should probably put on flamesuit right about.....now.

flame away...but frankly I'm getting sick of all this "torque is more important" bs.

From a performance standpoint, with proper gearing torque is irrelevant.....it says nothing about how much "work" the engine can do...only how much force it's able to exert....if you can exert 1000 ft. lb of force at 1 rpm that's not going to do you much good.

[ksniperfox]

Originally Posted by gurusan

flame away...but frankly I'm getting sick of all this "torque is more important" bs.

From a performance standpoint, with proper gearing torque is irrelevant.....it says nothing about how much "work" the engine can do...only how much force it's able to exert....if you can exert 1000 ft. lb of force at 1 rpm that's not going to do you much good.

i agree. if hp didnt matter wed all be out there like fred flintstone turning our wheels with our feet cause i can surely put 200+tq on a foot bar with my hands. but surely i cannot do it at 7000 rotations per minute. and neither can fred flintstone and thats why his rockmobile is so slow.

[mocha907]

Originally Posted by ksniperfox

i agree. if hp didnt matter wed all be out there like fred flintstone turning our wheels with our feet cause i can surely put 200+tq on a foot bar with my hands. but surely i cannot do it at 7000 rotations per minute. and neither can fred flintstone and thats why his rockmobile is so slow.

yay finally someone who looks at torque in a realistic way 200ft lbs is nothing you probably use more than that just to take the lug nuts off your wheels

[TalonMan]

Without tq, you wouldn't move. Simple as that. Not saying an assload is direly important, but without it, your not going anywhere. Tq moves objects, HP keeps them going. It's like rolling a ball downhill. The initial push is Torque, the acceleration is considered horsepower. Not the best analogy but it works.

Torque is what pushes you away from the starting line — the initial thrust that sets you back in your seat when you step on the gas. But as you get underway, horsepower is what pulls you along at higher speeds and becomes the more important indicator of the vehicles potential performance.

For example, General Motors' LS1 engines are designed to deliver a torque curve that's not only impressively high, but also long and flat. Horsepower is a function of torque and engine speed. A flat torque curve means good horsepower development and good performance at a variety of engine speeds, which is essential for hauling or towing heavy loads.

[Ntense90CRXSi]

Why hp doesn't matter from Evans-Tuning.com, very good write up.

For the last century, horsepower has been used to describe the power output of the internal combustion engine. The horsepower unit was created by James Watt in the 18th century. Its origin is based from how much power a horse could lift in foot pounds, 33,000 ft-lbs to be exact in one minute. The unit is derived from torque, which is the true measurement of the engine physical power production.

What is strange about the units of horsepower is that it has no physical meaning. Its an arbitrary unit that has no real signficance in describing the characterisitc of the engine. For those that are curious to calculate horsepower:

Horsepower=(rpm/5252)*torque

From this equation you can see that horsepower is nothing more than a contrived unit that is based purely from torque and rpm. You'll notice the number 5252 in the equation, this represents the point at which every dyno graph must intersect horsepower and torque. Its a mathematical relationship, both strange and interesting since horsepower is a function of torque and rpm.

There has been much confusion and rumors across the internet about gaining more horsepower. In essence, gaining more horsepower is gaining torque. If you are after "peak" horsepower, you are interesting in carrying the torque curve as high in the rpm range without falling as possible. You can see from the equation that as the rpm's increase, and the torque remains the same you get a higher horsepower number.

What phsycially is happening is that the engine is able to produce enough torque to overcome frictional forces through the air, tires, etc. As you are able to keep the torque from falling off on the top end, you are able to maintain a steady torque curve that will "pull" the car through the mph you are trying to reach. So people who are after "peak" horsepower really want to extend their torque curves as far towards redline as possible, without letting the torque fall off. Check out some dyno graphs and see what I mean. Horsepower doesnt describe the true nature of how the engine performs, its the torque curve.

From a tuners perspective, I dont tune off of the horsepower curves. The physical relevance towards the engine performance is arbitrary, since the torque is truely what is effected by the fuel, timing, breathing, etc of the engine. The horsepwer is merely a concocted unit of measure, showing no true characteristics of the engine power output. A good tuner will only make changes from the torque curves, see what increase/decrease the curves show from the changes. So next time you are thinking horsepower, think "what would I want my torque curve to be"?

[gurusan]

Actually, IMO that's a crap write-up as it's extremely misleading.

It leads the reader to believe horsepower isn't important, then it explains that horsepower is a function of torque and RPM.

So if we want to increase power we produce torque at a higher RPM...which...IS WHAT HORSEPOWER IS.

[BoostinLude]

These arguments are pointless. Reason won't phase ignorance.

[ksniperfox]

that article is terrible. without hp, you arent going to go fast. any beast of a built honda motor isnt going to go fast because of torque. it is going to be fast, not because of torque, but because of the horsepower it makes when that little bit of torque is applied at 9,000+rpm.

my car is at its peak wheel torque by 4,000 rpm. yet the faster the engine spins, the faster i accelerate even though torque is staying the same and eventually decreasing after 5500, my whp is still going up and i am accelerating faster because the engine is doing more work , the engine is making that torque at 7,000 rotations per minute. which is much more power/work then that same torque at ANY lower rpm.

[gurusan]

That article basically says horsepower IS important, but we prefer to call it torque at a specific RPM.