Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords street article pisses off import fan - Honda Forum / Acura Forum

coalmirror81 · 09-13-2004, 02:50 PM

I currently bought the August 04 issue of "Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords" and I mainly bought this issue because of the "Special Report" on NYC street racing. What happened to the SCCA and RASR campaigns in this very segment of magazine? Glorifying street racing is not something a magazine aimed at legitimate tuners and everyday "car guys" buy as a way to see the newest cars, dragstrip news, etc. The Fast&Furious was a different story. It was meant to glorify street racing.

They even manage to throw in a diss to import cars. "There are a few quality import cars that have attempted to cross over and race Mustangs, but they have had very little success." This is a questionable 'fact' at best and seems to be printed simply to ignite arguments between US and import owners. I think this is a stupid way to sell a quick copy of the magazine.

90Si · 09-13-2004, 03:55 PM

their mad imports are taking over the entire car scene

spray004 · 09-13-2004, 04:20 PM

Well if you get down to it, dollar for dollar you can build a faster Ford or Chevy than you can a japanese import. You can build a mild 430hp naturally aspirated small block chevy for 2500 bucks. Drop that into an old F-Body and you have an easy 13 second car if not high 12 second car. But yeah they appeal to their fan base, they dont care about import lovers. However check through other monthly copies, you'll probably find a Focus somewhere in there. Ford even has a V8 Focus they took around to shows.

Hoody Racer · 09-13-2004, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90Si

their mad imports are taking over the entire car scene

thats true.

What cars are bought more?

isnt it imports?

spray004 · 09-13-2004, 05:06 PM

Best selling vehicle in America is the Ford F-Series, second best selling vehicle in America is the Chevy C/K Series. Japanese imports are the highest selling cars, but not overall vehicles.

mike_sho · 09-13-2004, 06:16 PM

There mad cause replacement for displacement doesnt mean shit now. We make the most per displacement....thats what matters now. Less gas & more power.

Also it is something to see a 4cyl honda do a 10 second pass, all without any help. Yeah you can now take away we need to be turbocharged to be fast.

Its all about engine design. Power to weight ratios and chassis setups. For america, squiggly RWD OHV powered gas guzzlers sitting on top of leaf springs and or rear links. Is it that hard to go dual wishbone like the rest of the sane world? Guess that would make it harder to do donuts?

Hhahah you make me laugh mr.silly mon. (pointed at the domestic world).

nfscg · 09-13-2004, 06:19 PM

spray004 · 09-13-2004, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_sho

There mad cause replacement for displacement doesnt mean shit now. We make the most per displacement....thats what matters now. Less gas & more power.

Also it is something to see a 4cyl honda do a 10 second pass, all without any help. Yeah you can now take away we need to be turbocharged to be fast.

Its all about engine design. Power to weight ratios and chassis setups. For america, squiggly RWD OHV powered gas guzzlers sitting on top of leaf springs and or rear links. Is it that hard to go dual wishbone like the rest of the sane world? Guess that would make it harder to do donuts?

Hhahah you make me laugh mr.silly mon. (pointed at the domestic world).

You really dont understand automotive concepts all too well I can see. There is NO replacement for displacement. Two given engines, with the same exact perimeters besides displacement, the larger engine will always make more power. Power comes from how much air and fuel you can stuff into a cylinder. The more air and fuel, the more power. 10 second pass in what? the 1/8th mile, sure I can believe that. 1/4 mile? thats big bucks for a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder. Naturally aspirated V8's can go into the 9's with no problem. Dont bust out with some b.s. that V8s are heavy either. A small block chevy with forged internals, alum head and intake weighs in the low 400lb range. A 400lb mild to moderate engine that makes 550+hp is pretty damn good. BTW most of the time 4-link rear suspension is the best race set up you can have. RWD is always the preferred drivetrain set up in racing. Who the hell wants a nose heavy car that plows through the corners. A loose car will always be faster than a tight car.

JDM_Honda · 09-13-2004, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray004

You really dont understand automotive concepts all too well I can see. There is NO replacement for displacement. Two given engines, with the same exact perimeters besides displacement, the larger engine will always make more power. Power comes from how much air and fuel you can stuff into a cylinder. The more air and fuel, the more power. 10 second pass in what? the 1/8th mile, sure I can believe that. 1/4 mile? thats big bucks for a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder. Naturally aspirated V8's can go into the 9's with no problem. Dont bust out with some b.s. that V8s are heavy either. A small block chevy with forged internals, alum head and intake weighs in the low 400lb range. A 400lb mild to moderate engine that makes 550+hp is pretty damn good. BTW most of the time 4-link rear suspension is the best race set up you can have. RWD is always the preferred drivetrain set up in racing. Who the hell wants a nose heavy car that plows through the corners. A loose car will always be faster than a tight car.

Mike_Sho said:"There mad cause replacement for displacement doesnt mean shit now. We make the most per displacement....thats what matters now. Less gas & more power."

Read his post again, shut up and quit talking to yourself, or go drive you 9 second Mustang. BTW if it was that easy to get em in the 9s, you would have one.

90Si · 09-13-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray004

10 second pass in what? the 1/8th mile, sure I can believe that. 1/4 mile? thats big bucks for a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder.

did i really read that? dude, NA cars are in the high 9's now

lump · 09-13-2004, 08:06 PM

AWD, not rear wheel drive.

with RWD and lots of HP/TQ you have to worry about torque steer and your frame bending. Then hopping up on your back wheels and the landing, hopefully you have a strong frame. In FWD, all the wheels are going to do is hop (or spin). In AWD it's all going to grip really fast and propel you faster.

coalmirror81 · 09-13-2004, 08:11 PM

Well in regards to the Replacement for Displacement argument, I offer this:

Take for example smaller engines (not the small-blocks you mentioned.) If you had, for example, a 2.8L six, and a 2.8L I-5, who would win, if all else was equal? (Both N/A, or both turbo, all similarly comparable mods.) Another argument would be to have 3 engines with equal displacement and cylinders: "V", versus inline, versus flat/"boxer" (i.e. Subaru) To answer the question... does cylinder arrangement, minus weight distribution, affect performance and raw power?

I'm still from the school of thought that it takes some serious calculations to determine whether a turbo'd, heavy modified import (or domestic) 4cyl versus a blown 351 "Windsor" in a Mustang/Capri or an LS1 in a 'Vette. I'm not gonna say either way but it's a decision half of you will make within a couple of seconds, and the other half will really think about it.

(On another thought, supercharged I-4's don't seem to have reached the prominence as turbo'd ones.)

prored2000 · 09-13-2004, 08:15 PM

1. RWD is better for racing.

2. 4 link owns leaf springs.

3. "I make more horspower/liter" or "I have a higher tech motor" = Way for people who have tiny no torque motors feel better.

Guess what the new Mustang has variable valve timing but only makes 300 Hp out of it's 4.6L. You trying to say that it's crap because it makes 65 hp/L, the 320lb/ft of torque will own you. Lets see that's 69.5 per liter. Civic SI does make 80 HP per liter but only 66lb/ft of torque per liter.

You all love to compare apples and oranges, a small high reving motor is a very different experience than a larger high torque motor. I test drove a bunch of cars when I was looking for a daily driver ( had to be an auto for my commute) and I needed the higher torque of the larger V6 engine over the 4 cylinders I tried.

Face it tiny motor fans, if the insurance wasn't what it was then alot more of you would be driving V8 Mustangs etc.

spray004 · 09-13-2004, 08:30 PM

I didnt claim that 4 bangers are into the 10's the other guy did, I just said that to get a 4 banger into the 10s or 9's as you say in the 1/4, it'll take a SHIT load of money unlike big cube engines which require less radical engine work to achieve the same power.
And Coalminer I'll take a blown V8 anyday when it comes to performance.

JDMHonda, for the LAST time there is NO replacement for displacement. The bigger the volume of the cylinder, the more air and fuel you can stuff in there and the more power you can make. Why do you think people like to bore and stroke their engines? More cubes, more power.