Why your car is the way it is...

[hobie237]

Often people wonder why factory turbo cars only add 30-40 hp over the non-turbo edition, or why their stock springs are so weak, or why cars arent lowered out of the factory, why the gear ratios are what they are and whatnot. This is my attempt to explain these phenomena.

Engines and Warranties

Factory FI doesnt make great power. The STi's turbo is WAY to small. The Mazdaspeed Miata's turbo was intentionally modified for a smaller compressor side, and it's intercooler is made intentionally too small. The Cobalt SS only makes 205hp. Why? Two reasons. First, the cars have to be drivable by Mr. Dumbass, so that the insurance rates arent out of this world. Who wants to buy a $20k car and then pay that much every few years in auto insurance? Second, the engines have to be warrantied. To go to higher boost, the internals need to be strengthened, and more R&D needs to be done. The entire driveline needs to be re-engineered to take the stress. This costs money, and raises the price of the car. If this engineering isnt done, then the car isnt as reliable, and the company is out lots of money in warranty repairs.

"But Honda/Nissan/Mazda/whatever motors are better because they're all motor, and they make the same/more power than other companies' FI motors, and then you can add FI, and it'll really kick ass, right?"

Not exactly. I have yet to see a motor that is an "ultimate N/A motor" (high compression, high revs, etc) be an "ultimate boosted motor". If you just slap a turbo onto a high-comp motor, and run any sort of boost that means anything, the motor is a goner. "Ultimate boosted motors" tend to have much lower compression (regained with the boost) so that they dont knock and/or blow the cylinder heads off. (sucks for the owner, but fun to watch)

For instance, if the K20 was factory turbo, it would not be running 11:1 compression out of the factory. It would be at 8.5:1 compression or so, and it would be making about the same power out of the factory that it is right now, just with boost, for the reasons above.

[hobie237]

"Why does my car understeer so much?"

So idiots can drive it. Plain and simple. When a car understeers, (or oversteers) a person's natural reaction is go get on the brakes. This is the proper way to correct for understeer, but not oversteer, so understeer setup it is.

"Why is my factory suspension so weak?"

Because the average buyer is not an enthusiast. 99% of buyers will never come close to seeing the limits of their cars. So the springs are a comprimise between cutting down bodyroll in corners and a decent ride. If stiffer springs were standard, everybody would rip it apart for not having a good ride.

"Well, why dont they just lower it, so that it corners better with the same spring rates?"

Because if they lowered it, the average person would scrape the belly on bumps all the time. If it was lower it would be less capable in the snow, it couldnt make it through. If it was lower, and you didnt care about sport as much as carrying loads of stuff around, you would hit the bump stops when your sagging trunk hit a bump.

Why are my gear ratios the way they are?

The average person doesnt like to shift all the time, so they're longer. Thats the way it is. Some models are sportier with closer ratios, but not all that many, and it's a shame.

Why do my factory tires suck?

Save a nickel. Its one way for the carmakers to cheap out and nobody will really care. If they went with better ones for enthusiasts, they would have to charge more for the car, and the average buyer, who doesnt know the difference, wont pay for it.

Why does my factory sound system suck?

The average buyer doesnt care. I dont even care. If it plays halfway decent sound, its good enough for me, so whatever. I'm not going to pay for a more expensive car so that it can have a better sound system, so those who want better just have to upgrade.

Why are cars so expensive?

They're not. Think about the money that goes into producing the car. The money to pay the designers, the engineers, the workers, the money to build the factory itself, the shipping costs, the costs to build the dealership, etc., and its not all that much money per car, its a volume thing.

[hobie237]

It's all comprimise. Costs of production and engineering, costs of materials, costs of labor, costs of insurance, all balanced against what people want (average people, not us enthusiasts) and are willing to pay for, and how much they'll pay for it.

[GotBoost98]

NIce ricky you did a write up.......Rep! I wonder how others will take this

[hobie237]

Originally Posted by GotBoost98

NIce ricky you did a write up.......Rep! I wonder how others will take this

The truth can hurt sometimes...

[Mr GSR]

Originally Posted by hobie237

It's all comprimise. Costs of production and engineering, costs of materials, costs of labor, costs of insurance, all balanced against what people want (average people, not us enthusiasts) and are willing to pay for, and how much they'll pay for it.

So true. I took an engineering class where we had to design paper airplanes. We had to make the factory area to build them, then build them, then test them, then perform them. We learned all about chosing one method over another, adding features or not, maximum performance for money, ect.... after that class you understand more why companies do thing and cheap out where they can.

[97ACCRD]

Excellent write up.

[96vteclude]

Originally Posted by hobie237

Factory FI doesnt make great power. . Why? First, the cars have to be drivable by Mr. Dumbass, so that the insurance rates arent out of this world.

i knew it thats why we all dont have 500hp streetcars dang those people
edit: just remembered my sig dont hold that against me it was extenuating circumstances im actually one of the better drivers in my area

[expierence97]

Originally Posted by 96vteclude

i knew it thats why we all dont have 500hp streetcars dang those people
edit: just remembered my sig dont hold that against me it was extenuating circumstances im actually one of the better drivers in my area

Good drivers don't hit light poles. Certainly not to the extent that you apparently did.

[96vteclude]

Originally Posted by expierence97

Good drivers don't hit light poles. Certainly not to the extent that you apparently did.

like i said it was extenuating circumstances i had just had my wisdom teeth pulled 3 days before that and a friend needed me to take him home, pain pills and driving apparently dont mix i had that car 29 days i miss the sucker it was clean to with some really nice mods

[accordjtstyle]

Originally Posted by hobie237

For instance, if the K20 was factory turbo, it would not be running 11:1 compression out of the factory. It would be at 8.5:1 compression or so, and it would be making about the same power out of the factory that it is right now, just with boost, for the reasons above.

lol. with the new RDX coming out using what appears to be a modified K24....it does add much more power. Turbo is not only limited to 40hp gains. Didn't the 300zx turbo make a crapload more power than its non-turbo version?

and the 1989 Legend 2.0 Turbo was much power than its 2.0L N/A version.

[hobie237]

Originally Posted by accordjtstyle

lol. with the new RDX coming out using what appears to be a modified K24....it does add much more power. Turbo is not only limited to 40hp gains. Didn't the 300zx turbo make a crapload more power than its non-turbo version?

and the 1989 Legend 2.0 Turbo was much power than its 2.0L N/A version.

Since the RDX is an upmarket car, the rules are a bit different than a Civic Si or RSX-S. Since the markup is higher, as with the 300ZX turbo, more money can be spent on R&D to make it somewhat reliable, and this will be paid for by the higher markup. You would be hard pressed to find a car for under $25k making decent gains from a turbo, but when you get into the $30k+ range, the gains are more and more. Just think about it, the money spent on the car is pretty much the same, besides the motor. What is the difference between a bottom of the market CRV and this RDX? The drivetrain, and some electronic gizmos, and the difference in price is largely brand and performance markup.

[hcarcrx]

so so true about factory cars!! so much goes into cutting the costs on cars, how to make them last, and the every day stupid drivers!!! rep added :w00t

[Nathan123]

Somebody who "gets it".