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Old 07-13-2009, 02:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hesitation during acceleration - advice needed

Hi,
My engine recently stated to hesitate in the ~1800-3200 RPM range on gentle throttle push. The feel is like someone is pulling you car backwards and suddenly everything seems normal again when i reach about 3200 RPM then vtec kicks, then red line. It seems that it doesn't matter which gear i am in. its about same between 1800-3200 RPM. The biggest headache is that when i kick it all the way down, it feels like misfire. and it does not hesitate.
Just have to mention that sometimes the car goes normally in the whole RPM range. It depends ... hmmm ... i cant say on what depends.

I must mention that i fix my car by my self, so i can check and fix many problems. But I have to admit that this one is a bit too much for me.

So here it is what i have checked/fixed until today and what mods i have done to the engine:

D15B7 block + D16Z6 head = mini me (i think it is cold like that)
Cobra air intake
polished valves:
polished intake (d1z6)
ported intake and exhaust
new NGK spark plugs
new fuel filter
new distributor CAP, rotor
new ignition coil
new spark plug wires
and some more things which i cant remember

I you need some more info i will try to provide.
Please if you have any suggestions what else i could check, fix, or you have any thoughts on this problem please feel free to express your self.

Thanks you all in advance
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Timing advance (in degrees)?

ECU codes (how many blinks, which ecu)?

What tune are you running (be specific)?

When you say recently, what the hell does that mean (yesterday, last month, when you took it out of the shed after 6 years of sitting)?

o2 sensor condition? (get a multimeter)

To me, it sounds like your vacuum advance is too extreme, and you're misfiring in that rpm range. Turn your distributor a little (1-3 degrees) to the retarded side and try again. You'll have a little less power overall, but it should feel a lot more consistent.

How aggressive is this intake? Are you running a stock intake manifold? Are the runners really short? Have you run properly on this setup before? The more info you can provide the more options I can eliminate.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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dirty injectors or fuel filter!
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Good call, what else could I have missed?


... wait, I just realized nearly ANYTHING could cause this problem. We need more info to help. This isn't an auto, is it?
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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well, it is possible that the cap/rotor is off by a tooth or two for this to be happending as well. but timing can fix that problem.

check out your spark plugs and see what's up, you should be able to hunt down the problem starting from there. hell, it might even be your ignition coil not getting a constent connection or not firing at right timing.

and it can also be clogged fuel injectors like i stated above, run some fuel injector cleaner through your gas tank and see if that does anything.
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Timing advance (in degrees)? = 13,2 deg

ECU codes (how many blinks, which ecu)? = none

What tune are you running (be specific)? = none

When you say recently, what the hell does that mean (yesterday, last month, when you took it out of the shed after 6 years of sitting)? = about 2 weeks

o2 sensor condition? (get a multimeter) = voltage spikes are equal. pulses from 0.15 to 0.89 v

To me, it sounds like your vacuum advance is too extreme, and you're misfiring in that rpm range. Turn your distributor a little (1-3 degrees) to the retarded side and try again. You'll have a little less power overall, but it should feel a lot more consistent. = TRIED THAT YESTERDAY, NO HELP

How aggressive is this intake? Are you running a stock intake manifold? Are the runners really short? Have you run properly on this setup before? The more info you can provide the more options I can eliminate. = I WILL GET THE PICTURE TODAY, AND YES THE MANIFOLD IS STOCK
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, damn, I'm impressed. Succinct, accurate answers! I applaud you, colouny!

Unfortunately, my reps don't fix your car. Madass is right, it's probably fuel delivery at this point. Do you have a fuel pressure regulator installed? Have you ever used seafoam on your engine? It's probably a good idea to pull your injectors and make sure they're clean and the pintles move when you give them signal.

You may also want to check the gap on your plugs. I've had badly gapped plugs come out of a new box before (and some plugs don't come pre-gapped, but that's generally in Motorcycle Land).

It's strange that it's only a certain RPM range. Have you compression/leakdown tested this engine? I doubt your rings are fouled, but it's a remote possibility, and COULD cause a distinct lack of torque. It's unlikely enough that if you haven't already done either a leakdown or compression test, I wouldn't bother.

It still sounds like a spark/fuel delivery issue to me. If you have access to a timing light, I'd recommend zeroing in your timing exactly (it sounds like you have already) just to rule that one out completely. Other than that, my brain is fried from trying to get my turbo engine to mate to its transmission in my 240z. I'll review this tomorrow, and hopefully offer a little more useful input then.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drummingpariah View Post
Unfortunately, my reps don't fix your car. Madass is right, it's probably fuel delivery at this point. Do you have a fuel pressure regulator installed? Have you ever used seafoam on your engine? It's probably a good idea to pull your injectors and make sure they're clean and the pintles move when you give them signal.
I do not have a fuel pressure regulator installed and never used a sea foam ( must ask what it is? ) I did that today, injector filter are clean, they all on signal.

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Originally Posted by drummingpariah View Post
You may also want to check the gap on your plugs. I've had badly gapped plugs come out of a new box before (and some plugs don't come pre-gapped, but that's generally in Motorcycle Land).
With motorcycles i have had this problem, but with cars never. But i have checked the gaps on the plugs, its 1,1mm as it should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummingpariah View Post
It's strange that it's only a certain RPM range. Have you compression/leakdown tested this engine? I doubt your rings are fouled, but it's a remote possibility, and COULD cause a distinct lack of torque. It's unlikely enough that if you haven't already done either a leakdown or compression test, I wouldn't bother.
Leak down - never. Compression test .. hmmm... have done it but a while ago, will do that tomorrow just in case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummingpariah View Post
It still sounds like a spark/fuel delivery issue to me. If you have access to a timing light, I'd recommend zeroing in your timing exactly (it sounds like you have already) just to rule that one out completely. Other than that, my brain is fried from trying to get my turbo engine to mate to its transmission in my 240z. I'll review this tomorrow, and hopefully offer a little more useful input then.
I have access to timing light, but i have never tired to zero the timing. I will also do that tomorrow.

I will also check o2 sensor one more time, this time with oscilloscope ( will have to borrow one.) well see what it will show. I will also check the fuel pressure.

Thanks again
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Sea Foam's been around for long long time and it's a engine internal cleaner that I trust to use besides BG 44K. it costs about $7~8 dollors a can and you put half into your full tank of gas and other half into either straight to intake throttle body or one of the perspective intake manifold vaccume lines to be digested by the motor itself. throttle body is the easiest way to do it. there is a write up on how to seafoam on SHO somewhere, i'm sure you'll be able to search that out. but it does foul the spark plugs at times so you gotta check'em out when you do it.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I've had this before on cars. If you slowly and gradually put the throttle down at a certain point it will feel like the key turned off then back on for a second?

If so check the Throttle position sensor. Its that black plastic thing that sticks out of the end of the (you guessed it lol) Throttle body! With ignition on measure between the red/black wire with the positive probe and the negative wants earthed on the engine. Slowly open the throttle it starts at roughly 0.5 volts and should smoothly rise to about 5volts ish. if faulty it will rise on voltage then just go to 0v for a brief second then carry on. Worth a try?
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hi all,
Been away for some, time.
I have solved the problem partially with hesitation. The problem was partially faulty oxygen sensor. Some time it was not working, and stuck on about 0,85 volt reading , if i am not mistaken its reads for rich mixture. and some times it was just working normally. Out of 7 test with oscilloscope 5 were ok, and only two confirmed that it is dead. I have replaced it but the hesitation disappeared only partially.
I have had some kind of SPOON sports chip for P28 ECU, finally after having it in my garage for like two years i have installed , and surprisingly it solved all my problems. Smooth throttle response, no more engine stalls on cold and mid warm engine, no more hesitation, vtec engages later and some more good things... Well actually sorts out almost all....

With the J1 connected (external memory enabled) civic is just eating 2-3 liters more petrol. I don't like it due to petrol price. As soon i disconnect the jumper the problems come back, but its more eco friendly, but hesitation just is killing me, i have to play with the accelerator get the rpm higher and after it reaches about 3700-4100 everything is back to normal.

any ideas? If need more info about the car just ask.

Thanks for your time.
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Hi all,
If need more info about the car just ask.

Thanks for your time.
Hi Colouny, did you by any chance get your valves adjusted and set your timing?

Just curious because I am having similar problems. I guess I am going to have to go get a multimeter.

Thanks.

G.
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Old 08-05-2009, 02:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hi Colouny, did you by any chance get your valves adjusted and set your timing?

Just curious because I am having similar problems. I guess I am going to have to go get a multimeter.

Thanks.

G.
Yes, I have adjusted the valves by my self, its now up on spec. and rechecked after 500 KM, they are OK. The timing is set at 13.5 degress.

Do you also have hesitation on sharp accelereation between 1500 -4000 rpm ? I feels like someone is holding you from behind and it suddenly disapears?
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Old 08-05-2009, 02:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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have you checked all of the vacume hoses to make sure none of them are dry rotted or anything, I've seen that b4. also, your oil level is correct i assume? a lady came into the advance where i work the other day and her truck was vibrating really bad up to about 3000 rpm and she had 14 quarts of oil in it. the oil change place had forgotten to drain it out.
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Old 08-06-2009, 12:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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have you checked all of the vacume hoses to make sure none of them are dry rotted or anything, I've seen that b4. also, your oil level is correct i assume? a lady came into the advance where i work the other day and her truck was vibrating really bad up to about 3000 rpm and she had 14 quarts of oil in it. the oil change place had forgotten to drain it out.
I am not sure about the hoses, but will check them for sure. I have seen what happens, when driving without oil. here ya go some pics after the camshaft has been sutcked and timing belt torn.
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