1997 Honda Prelude SH Turbo??? Need Help! - Honda Forum / Acura Forum

prelude1911 · 08-22-2005, 11:07 PM

Hi, I have a 1997 Honda Prelude SH and I put the turbonetics turbo kit in it. Here the link: http://www.turboneticsinc.com/ts_components.htm
I put in new wiseco 8.3-8.5 piston in it an after the rebuild without the turbo the car ran fine except it was slower but the vtec and atts all work fine. Now with the turbo install the car is still slow. After 4-5,000 rpm is doesn't go anywhere. What can be the problem? The two additional injectors that are on the intake are working and firing more fuel into the engine. Could it be blowoff valve is releasing the air with little pressure. Because i rev the car a little and feel air already coming out. or maybe a boost leak somewhere. anyone had the same kit install or have the same problem on any other car.

Nathan123 · 08-23-2005, 09:00 AM

OK... so you've mentioned that you have forged pistons. Do you have the block sleeved? If not... that might be a source of your problems, or will at least be a problem in the future. Forged pistons will eat FRM (and vice-versa) pretty quickly, from what I hear. Happens in both the Prelude and the S2000.

Stock cylinder walls after having forged pistons installed:

Forged pistons from that engine:

I've heard of them completely seizing, in fact.

If you are sleeved, disregard. Still... we'll need more info (like turbo behavior, peak PSI & RPM attained, complete list of mods, etc.) to do more than take guesses.

prelude1911 · 08-23-2005, 09:50 AM

The block has been resleeve with iron ductile sleeves and hone to spec. Here a list of mods:

wiseco pistons 8.3-8.5
eagle rods
skunk 2 valves
skunk 2 retainers
skunk 2 springs
walbro 255lph fuel pump
turbonetics complete kit

stock fuel rail, regulator, and injectors
stock cams

that basically all that have to do with the engine.

prelude1911 · 08-23-2005, 09:51 AM

the car can go all the way to redline but it lags.

Brads94civicsir · 08-23-2005, 10:01 AM

YOU need a wideband O2 and get your af 13.7 off boost and 11.5-12.5 in boost it worked 4 me.

PM-Performance · 08-23-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brads94civicsir

YOU need a wideband O2 and get your af 13.7 off boost and 11.5-12.5 in boost it worked 4 me.

Please stop posting becuase you post incorrect information.

Also i dont think its soo much the sleeves Nathan that causes that. I have had aftermarket sleeves look like that too . Sometimes from detonation, sometimes from piston slap, big piston to wall clearances can do that too I think.
Not to say you are wrong, but I dont think those pics were directly correlated to just the materials not working with eachother per say.

Id bet along the lines of the tune thouh. Prob running dirt rich. Are you making full boost? What boost level?

Nathan123 · 08-23-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itr206

Also i dont think its soo much the sleeves Nathan that causes that. I have had aftermarket sleeves look like that too . Sometimes from detonation, sometimes from piston slap, big piston to wall clearances can do that too I think.
Not to say you are wrong, but I dont think those pics were directly correlated to just the materials not working with eachother per say.

It's not just the difference in hardness/makeup of the materials (although an aluminum sleeve surface is not the strongest thing ever) so much as the incompatability of the coefficients of thermal expansion of those materials. You mentioned clearances being off, and that is the result (I believe) of these high rates of expansion. Forged pistons expand MUCH more than stock hypereutectic cast pistons, and when combined with the extra tolerence required for the sleeve's expansion, you would be looking at an unfavorable clearance situation almost no matter what. That's my take on the whole deal.

stackz · 08-24-2005, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan123

It's not just the difference in hardness/makeup of the materials (although an aluminum sleeve surface is not the strongest thing ever) so much as the incompatability of the coefficients of thermal expansion of those materials. You mentioned clearances being off, and that is the result (I believe) of these high rates of expansion. Forged pistons expand MUCH more than stock hypereutectic cast pistons, and when combined with the extra tolerence required for the sleeve's expansion, you would be looking at an unfavorable clearance situation almost no matter what. That's my take on the whole deal.

but considering you would still have the cylinder walls machined to the toleranced provided on the card that comes with the pistons, this shouldnt be a problem.

cant remember off hand but aren't the iron ductile sleeves just slightly better than stock?? I know there's a third type but I honestly cant remember...been too long for me lol.

but yeah, are you seeing any boost on your gauge or anything? crank the adjustment down on your bov and go for a spin. a little cavitation wont hurt just to see if the bov was leaking...well depending on how high you have the boost set to

Nathan123 · 08-24-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stackz

but considering you would still have the cylinder walls machined to the toleranced provided on the card that comes with the pistons, this shouldnt be a problem.

It is a problem when you combine the hardness of the two metals and the abnormal coefficient of thermal expansion of the FRM sleeves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stackz

cant remember off hand but aren't the iron ductile sleeves just slightly better than stock??

"Better" for what? The FRM sleeves are very strong for being as thin as they are and being comprised of aluminum. Very good technology for a production motor using hypereutectic pistons. And, it's not like they would break under boost (it's the pistons that do that). Iron, however, is stronger and does not have compatability problems with forged pistons... making it a far better choice for a "power adder" engine (since it allows you to safely upgrade the pistons). The stock pistons are too brittle, and it's just a matter of time til you lose a ring land or worse.

Sure... people have gotten away with using forged pistons with FRM, just as some have boosted 12+ psi on the stock pistons with a great tune and race gas. For a while. As far as reliability is concerned, I would suggest neither of these things.

95accordlx · 08-24-2005, 08:47 PM

U may also be overlooking the little stuff. Ive had some shit happen to me in my accord b4 that all resulted in a sluggish feel. Check for things such as blown or leaking wastegate gasket, exhaust manifold leaks, u may be running pig rich. Have u had the car tuned?
Also....i had my BOV come slightly loose but it was leaking air and i lost a ton of power. Check all of it!

stackz · 08-25-2005, 05:39 AM

thermal expansion is still minimal if the sleeves are machined properly. those were probably either not machined properly or the guy just dropped them in straight up after popping his stockers out. when you combine either of these with increased cylinder pressure and/or horsepower you will get cylinder wall clearance issues and/or sleeve failure. Well this or bad tuning of course or user error where the guy gets in a race and gets pissed when he's losing and just spikes the boost controller

I've seen that happen many times.

anyway, to correct myself after going back into my old notes (and to apparently make you happy). It was the cast chromoly replacement sleeves that I meant as being slightly better than stock. looking back I see ductile sleeves on average have about 100k psi tensile strength while the chromoly ones are on average rated at about 50k. so my bad on that one but I did state in my post that I couldnt remember off hand

XSiteg · 08-27-2005, 11:49 PM

yea thats what it sounds like maybe a leak, check all ur plumbing and vac lines or u could always take it back to whoever putt it on and have them play with it or not

XSiteg · 08-27-2005, 11:55 PM

it could also be injectors almost the same thing happend when i turbocharged the ls/vtec i had in my car b4 it took me forever to figure out that i fould my injectors check that just a thought

danmakG60 · 08-28-2005, 12:03 AM

What does your vacuum read at idle?

Check timing

Make sure all TPS/coolant temp etc. sensors plugged in and working

Make sure A/F ratio is good

check and or replace spark plugs

check condition of rotor button/distributor cap

At what rpm do you have full boost?

Compression test

Go ahead check everything including the obvious, your problem will be discovered

98vtec · 08-28-2005, 10:07 AM

just as long as the block is sleeved, you are ok to run forged pistons. Those pictures that nathan posted are directly related to running a forged piston in a FRM sleeved block. The only motors with FRM sleeves are the prelude, s2000 and i believe the NSX has FRM sleeves.

That is what WILL happen if you run a forged piston in an unsleeved FRM block.