Research help!

[PR_TR]

ok im still doing some research on my next project and there are to questions that i haven't found an answer for yet...

1. How much whp can i gain off using an ITB on a h22a?

2. Can i use a ITB with 50-75shot?
--- If not isn't a ITB a type of forced induction?

Thanks for the help.
Naldy

[yellowrexsi]

Not sure about the whp from itb's, but from all I have read, they are not worth the price
I doubt you can use nitrous on itb's unless you fab something up (sure that wouldn't be that hard, if you don't mind drilling holes in your brand new itb's)
And itb's are not forced induction, typical fi is turbo, supercharger

[PR_TR]

Originally Posted by yellowrexsi

Not sure about the whp from itb's, but from all I have read, they are not worth the price
I doubt you can use nitrous on itb's unless you fab something up (sure that wouldn't be that hard, if you don't mind drilling holes in your brand new itb's)
And itb's are not forced induction, typical fi is turbo, supercharger

i wouldn't mind drilling holes in them because i'm not going to buy them brand new thank god for ebay....

but im still stuck on the whp i can gain from them because someone told me that its just like boosting but he was high and someone else told me they're just for show but he was a junky... i still have my unanswered question...

[yellowrexsi]

they are kinda more for show, the 2g's you would spend on a new set of itb's only nets about 20 whp
That same 2g's on a new turbo kit could net you 100 whp

[PR_TR]

Originally Posted by yellowrexsi

they are kinda more for show, the 2g's you would spend on a new set of itb's only nets about 20 whp
That same 2g's on a new turbo kit could net you 100 whp

yea... im going to probably buy one in the future but first I'm going to find me a lude and a h22a but a n/a setup is going to burn a hole in my pocket so i think i mite go with boost for now...

[drummingpariah]

I'm afraid there's a good deal of confusion as to what ITBs are and how they work here. Essentially, think of them as a way to add consistency to each cylinder, allowing you to tune your engine more precisely. You'll gain some throttle response, but actual power gains will be negligible unless you've already tuned the engine pretty heavily (ITBs are used for motorcycles, which generally run around 11:1 or higher compression ratios).

As far as nitrous goes, you can inject nitrous into practically any engine. You have a few options as to what to go with, but it really depends on what you're building this car for. Is it for a straight track, Solo2, or just a daily driver? How much of a shot is your engine capable of handling? Do you plan to use a wet shot or a dry shot, and how are you planning to tune your engine?

[PR_TR]

Originally Posted by drummingpariah

I'm afraid there's a good deal of confusion as to what ITBs are and how they work here. Essentially, think of them as a way to add consistency to each cylinder, allowing you to tune your engine more precisely. You'll gain some throttle response, but actual power gains will be negligible unless you've already tuned the engine pretty heavily (ITBs are used for motorcycles, which generally run around 11:1 or higher compression ratios).

As far as nitrous goes, you can inject nitrous into practically any engine. You have a few options as to what to go with, but it really depends on what you're building this car for. Is it for a straight track, Solo2, or just a daily driver? How much of a shot is your engine capable of handling? Do you plan to use a wet shot or a dry shot, and how are you planning to tune your engine?

As I was saying I was planning to buy a Prelude and build up a h22a from the junk yard to swap it in the Prelude. At the end after I move I will be aiming a atleast 320whp.

The car is just going to be used as my weekend car for fun shits and giggles and maybe to fuck up a few Toyota 1.8's.

[drummingpariah]

Originally Posted by PR_TR

As I was saying I was planning to buy a Prelude and build up a h22a from the junk yard to swap it in the Prelude. At the end after I move I will be aiming a atleast 320whp.

The car is just going to be used as my weekend car for fun shits and giggles and maybe to fuck up a few Toyota 1.8's.

I'm going to give you some honest opinions here, and if you read on you are agreeing not to get offended. 320whp is completely useless in a fwd car. You won't have traction and the power won't be controllable. If you're looking to have fun in a daily driver, focus on getting some good response out of the stock h22a and take a driving course (it'll make you faster than any other mod).

You won't be able to lock up in a straight line with that much power, much less while turning (you use the same wheels for turning and braking and accelerating, which limits how your traction can be broken up). As I often say, start with suspension and setup, then tuning the engine you have, then on upgrades (turbo is a great idea for an h22a, but if you aren't intimately familiar with how car suspension geometry works, you'll never be able to use all that power. If you're just looking to say that you have a car with gobs of power, go for it. If you really want to be able to go fast, focus on learning to really drive (with a real instructor), then making the car drive better (suspension, brake, engine response, gearing), then on making more power.

Remember, HP doesn't make you fast.

[PR_TR]

Originally Posted by drummingpariah

I'm going to give you some honest opinions here, and if you read on you are agreeing not to get offended. 320whp is completely useless in a fwd car. You won't have traction and the power won't be controllable. If you're looking to have fun in a daily driver, focus on getting some good response out of the stock h22a and take a driving course (it'll make you faster than any other mod).

You won't be able to lock up in a straight line with that much power, much less while turning (you use the same wheels for turning and braking and accelerating, which limits how your traction can be broken up). As I often say, start with suspension and setup, then tuning the engine you have, then on upgrades (turbo is a great idea for an h22a, but if you aren't intimately familiar with how car suspension geometry works, you'll never be able to use all that power. If you're just looking to say that you have a car with gobs of power, go for it. If you really want to be able to go fast, focus on learning to really drive (with a real instructor), then making the car drive better (suspension, brake, engine response, gearing), then on making more power.

Remember, HP doesn't make you fast.

lol there was no reason for me to get offended. thats why i said i'll be aiming for that much power but i'm not really sure because i haven't finished doing my research. Yes, i am still getting familiar to the car itself and no i never learned how to drive with an insructor i had to learn on my on but i'll get around to finding an instructor once get settled in P.R.

But like you had stated about the suspension thats where i was going with this project first i won't start building the engine until i get comfortable with the car first.

[drummingpariah]

Originally Posted by PR_TR

lol there was no reason for me to get offended. thats why i said i'll be aiming for that much power but i'm not really sure because i haven't finished doing my research. Yes, i am still getting familiar to the car itself and no i never learned how to drive with an insructor i had to learn on my on but i'll get around to finding an instructor once get settled in P.R.

But like you had stated about the suspension thats where i was going with this project first i won't start building the engine until i get comfortable with the car first.

You'd be surprised by how many people are offended when you even HINT at the fact that they might not be a perfect driver. I'm glad you have an open mind about this. Most of the time, it takes a (good) driving instructor to let you know that you really didn't understand vehicles or physics or how anything worked before. Then you start focusing on important things, like tire size, castor, and every type of bump that will upset the car (sapping traction, power, and control).

Once you're settled, just show up to a few SCCA events. It's hard NOT to get into the correct swing of things from there.

As far as suspension goes, stiffer does not always mean better. In fact, softer suspension and a stiffer body is often a better choice. You'll be able to "feel" more precisely that way without getting unsettled. The car responds to the road, rather than your kidneys responding.

All in all, you sound like you're headed down the right path. I'd suggest (again, just suggestions here):

• suspension TUNING (don't just go buy parts because they're tighter, or jdm, or whatever; focus on whether or not you suffer from understeer/oversteer and at what speeds and angles you suffer from them. find out where your traction begins to break and how you can stabilize the car to expand on your traction base) (this also includes GOOD tires... don't just get rubber bands because they look cool)
• brake response (stainless steel lines, decent pads [not race pads, they suck for daily driving because they don't heat up], quality brake fluid, and a proper bleeding job)
• engine response (clutch, lightened flywheel, lighter wheels for lower rotational mass, possibly ITBs?). The idea is to get the car to do what you want. You don't want uncontrollable power, you want a predictable power band, and you want to be able to dance around in the power band all the time. Your engine should respond to your every whim immediately.
• engine TUNING (this doesn't mean buying new parts, but bulletproofing it isn't a bad idea... a chip tune on an h22a can offer huge power gains, and can help to even out your power curve)
• I/H/C/E (intake, header, cam, exhaust. You're basically letting the engine breathe more deeply. It'll like it happily, I promise. Don't forget the cams, and time it correctly afterward!)

Once you've got that, you've basically done what many Honda racecars have done. You could gut it to make it (considerably) faster, but the tradeoff is that it's a bear for daily driving. My daily driver is mostly gutted (just a dash and seats, no interior panels to speak of, no stereo, etc) and while I love it that way, I don't expect anyone else to be into that. Understand what makes sense, but do what makes you happy. It's your car, after all.

Of course, if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer, and if you're just looking for some light reading, head over to my own site:
Madness Shop Manual

[PR_TR]

Most of them get offended because they don't want to look stupid but thats not really a problem for me i know i don't know everything i'm still learning...

But theres something that was going around my mind for a while now. I had a 87' toyota corolla with a 2jz swap and a single turbo conversion but i sold it and took out the motor before i did; i know that there will be alot of issues with where im going with this but it sounds like it would be a sick car and do you think it would be possible to swap the 2jz into a prelude?

I know the prelude is fwd and the 2jz is a rwd engine and i'll have to convert it into a rwd; that'll have to be alot of fabrication and suspension issues are going to be pretty big too sense the 2jz is a heavy engine.

[drummingpariah]

Originally Posted by PR_TR

I know the prelude is fwd and the 2jz is a rwd engine and i'll have to convert it into a rwd; that'll have to be alot of fabrication and suspension issues are going to be pretty big too sense the 2jz is a heavy engine.

I'm not going to say it's impossible, however, the 2jz is a very long engine and may not fit under the Prelude's nose (I know the prelude is pretty long, but the firewall sits pretty far forward, and there isn't as much space as it seems like). Converting a fwd car to rwd is a HUGE undertaking, but if you fancy yourself as a skilled welder, have access to a good rear end (like a Silvia rear subframe, perhaps?), and understand that you'll have to completely reinforce the chassis to handle power pushing instead of pulling, I'd say you're in for one bumpy but fun ride.

Coincidentally, I'm doing something fairly similar with my CRX2.0 project. I'm putting a 13b (rx7) motor into my EF (2nd-gen CRX) chassis and converting it over to RWD using an MX-5 (Miata) rear end. We'll see how that goes, my biggest concern is the space between the seats and ground clearance. Then I'll have to "fix" my suspension, adjust camber, castor, and height on the front and rear, and I'll have to create a custom linkage to make the shifter end up where I need it to. Like I said, it's a big project, but I'm excited to get started.

[PR_TR]

Originally Posted by drummingpariah

I'm not going to say it's impossible, however, the 2jz is a very long engine and may not fit under the Prelude's nose (I know the prelude is pretty long, but the firewall sits pretty far forward, and there isn't as much space as it seems like). Converting a fwd car to rwd is a HUGE undertaking, but if you fancy yourself as a skilled welder, have access to a good rear end (like a Silvia rear subframe, perhaps?), and understand that you'll have to completely reinforce the chassis to handle power pushing instead of pulling, I'd say you're in for one bumpy but fun ride.

Coincidentally, I'm doing something fairly similar with my CRX2.0 project. I'm putting a 13b (rx7) motor into my EF (2nd-gen CRX) chassis and converting it over to RWD using an MX-5 (Miata) rear end. We'll see how that goes, my biggest concern is the space between the seats and ground clearance. Then I'll