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Old 04-06-2004, 10:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Vacuum leak around Injector bases

For some background, I have a 96 Integra GS-R B18C1. It has stock internals with a Jackson Racing supercharger running 8 PSI of boost, boost timing controller, VPAC, MAP controller, Jackson Racing boost referenced FMU, Jackson Racing fuel filter, Jackson Racing high volume fuel pump, AEM fuel pressure regulator, AEM fuel rail, and Accel performance fuel injectors.

The fuel rail and injectors are a recent add on. The problem I'm having is I can't seem to keep a seal between the lower seal rings that join the injectors to the intake. The car is hard to start, idles roughly, and my mixture is out of whack at high boost. I have to way retard the boost timing to keep from getting awful knock, and I keep getting cylinder misfire trouble codes. It never did this before I changed the fuel rail and injectors. I've changed the seal rings, and it appeared fine, but after 30 miles or so, the vacuum leak reappeared. Every time I take the fuel rail off and reinstall it, the leak seems to disappear for the same 30 miles or so. Is there anything that will seal better than the flimsy factory lower seals? They just don't seem near tight enough to seal against the boost. I know there has to be some fit difference between the stock parts and my aftermarket stuff. There are just so many variables to consider...
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Old 04-07-2004, 10:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If its a snug fit on the install, it shouldn't even have that leak. If its leaking, then there is something wrong with the install.
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Old 04-07-2004, 05:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It's definitely not snug. The injectors aren't loose in the seals, but they're way to easy to move when they're in there. As far as the install, that's pretty hard to screw up. There are just 3 phenolic spacers under the fuel rail and then the fuel rail bolts in with 3 bolts. It's installed just like the factory one was. I'm thinking it's the injectors are marginally smaller than the factory ones. Anyone else have the Accel injectors on a B18C1?
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Do you have pictures of them side by side? That would help show if there are any dimensional differences. But if they are not snug and can be easily moved while installed, then something is definately wrong. Install error or not, its not right. Its not suppost to do that.
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Old 04-07-2004, 10:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That's the problem. I don't have the old injectors. They were really starting to get dirty, so I just decided to change them rather than pay the money to have them cleaned.

It's possible Jegs could have sent me the wrong injectors, as there are like 6 different types for Honda applications. If they are wrong, it's just by a small margin though. I compared the injectors to stock before changing them, and they looked identical in dimension. I should have used a set of calipers on them in retrospect...

I changed them while on vacation at my dad's, so I guess my only hope is if he didn't chuck them already. lol
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Old 04-07-2004, 10:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I found these pictures on the net for ya.










Supposingly they are Venom injectors compared to stock GSR injectors. It does seem like the Venom uses a slightly larger/thicker injector seals (its the green things on the injectors right?). This was also on a JRSC GSR I think.
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Old 04-08-2004, 02:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yep. That's just like my install, except I have a billet fuel rail. I see what you mean on the seals. Those green ones look much thicker. That's probably the problem. The new injectors I got from Jegs had the upper O-rings, but not the lower seals. 10 to 1 they're supposed to use a thicker lower seal.

Now I just have to figure out where to buy the green ones. LOL

Thanks for the pics.
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Old 04-08-2004, 05:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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When I switched from stock injectors to RC270cc injectors on my 94 GSR, I had to remove the phenolic spacers from the injector rail mounting points, eliminate the factory studs, and use 6mm bolts w/ washers to get the right seal. You may have to do something similar. Mine have been trouble free for a year now. Good luck, Joe
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Old 04-08-2004, 07:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks. I was thinking about trying that myself. I know that Honda only uses the spacers on certain year models on the B18C1. I was just afraid of breaking something. I guess I'll go out and try removing the spacers now. I don't have to remove any studs since my original intake was replaced when I installed the supercharger, so it'll be easy to try.
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Old 04-08-2004, 07:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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WOW! I'm surprised they didn't include those seals for you. They shouls have came with everything needed to work. Isn't JEG's more of a Domestic joint???

Anyhow, I'm sure a local autopart store would be able to get you some if you were about to provide them with what you needed, like a stock one to compare to or something.

Good luck!
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Old 04-08-2004, 09:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah, I think the seals probably should have been included, but somebody just left them out of the box. Jeg's is primarily domestic stuff, but they do have quite a bit of import/sport compact hardware too.

I tried bolting the fuel rail straight down, and it did seem to help. It cranks pretty quickly now, but still not as fast as it did before I messed with the injectors. As far as getting the seals at an auto part store, you wouldn't believe how hard those things are to get. Out of 3 Honda dealers and one Acura dealer, they had a combined stock of 3 seals, and they wanted over 12 bucks a piece for them!! I found some online, but they definitely were not OEM parts when I got them. They were at least a millimeter smaller than stock, and they were so loose, there was no way they would seal. I just bit the bullet and ordered the factory seals from the dealer. I suspect these new seals might be runined from all the blow by though. I'm about 90% sure the problem would be totally fixed with new seals along with bolting the rail directly to the intake without the spacers.

I've been trying to figure out who sells the green ones, but so far no luck. I definitely don't want to order a set of Venom injectors just to get the seals. lol
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Old 04-09-2004, 09:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Have you tried contacting Accel to see if they can provide you with them. I mean, if you had to pay for them even, at least they would fit right.

And I belive each seal would be made to fit that particular injector.
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Old 04-09-2004, 09:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'll have to call Accel Monday and see if the seals were supposed to be included with the injectors.

I got to drive the car today, and it definitely runs better with the spacers taken out. My mixture is full rich on boost, so I was able to turn the boost retard down a lot. I ran a 14 flat quarter mile earlier on all season street tires, and that's pretty good for the amount of boost I'm running. It's the best I've done so far. The extra fuel from the bigger injectors must be doing something under full boost.

I'm wondering if it's really the vacuum leak that's making it hard to start though. I mean--I definitely had a vacuum leak before. You could see where the fuel/air mixture had turned brown where it leaked on the intake runners, and the mixture was way too lean on boost, but the hard start condition seems like it may be related to something else.

I guess I'll try the original fuel rail and see what that does. It's really frustrating when these new, expensive parts don't work as well as the factory stuff...
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Old 04-10-2004, 04:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Believe it or not, I was told that the aftermarket fuel rails don't realy do much because the stock one can handle quite a bit already. I would swap it back out to see if it helps any.
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Old 04-10-2004, 10:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I wish I knew that before I spent 140 bucks on the new rail. LOL I guess I can ebay the AEM rail if it ends up being the cause of the hard starting.

Have you ever heard of the AEM high volume rails causing hard starts?
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