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I was recently flown up to boston to tune a few cars.. E85 just requires a different target AFR and a better fuel system then regular pump gas does.. E85 allows for more timing and better overall power to a point.
Yea, as long as you make use of the compression and ignition timing e85 can handle without developing PCP too early, its actually quite fuel efficient, I've been trying to find good reading information with limited time that I have these days.

Im a firm believer in" research is the difference between speculation and investment". This build will be for the accord and will be a weekend car.

I know the afr is different from gas, and that you need a good bit more flow for alcohol. People say 2x the fuel but its not that much more. I recently read about a guy making 170tq on a 1.6 at 2500 rpm with e85. This was done on a restrictive log style manifold.

I have 2 f22b1 engines now so I can build one and keep the accord running.
 

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the AFR isnt different at all. the stoich is different which means it takes X amount more fuel than gasoline to reach the same AFR/lambda.

the only the difference i would say about the AFR is that you can run this fuel much leaner than gasonline.
 

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the AFR isnt different at all. the stoich is different which means it takes X amount more fuel than gasoline to reach the same AFR/lambda.

the only the difference i would say about the AFR is that you can run this fuel much leaner than gasonline.

Heh the afr is different, but the lambda value for stoich is still 1.0 no matter what fuel. Did you eat your wheaties today?

I think pure alcohol is like 9.0 , so 9.8 to 10.0 range for e85's stoich? 12.0 is rich for gas, 6.0 is rich for alcohol, so id guess e85 to be around 7.0-7.5 for a rich mix, without starting to go too rich.

Its hard to tell how lean you can run an engine, you have to watch the EGT's and play with ignition timing while leaning it out(as i understand). Probably would be a good idea to have some kind of knock sensor.

Id like to get an ostrich setup with several tuned profiles or I could get a flip switch to use those stacked chips, where you can have 2 different configs at a quick switch. I could even keep the car from running if the kid gets the keys. Heh.

It would be cool if you could use a jump drive in your ostrich to select 1 of a few profiles depending on the driving you were about to do :)


Honestly I don't know about E85 aside from whats out there that seems like reliable information.

What I have found though is that E85 produces a little more exhaust gases than Gasoline. Its also cooler, so as we all know cooler air is more dense, more density will drive objects with more force, so turbocharging should have some smal advantages with E85, more so in the low rpm range.

I plan on making a custom manifold for my application, where the wastegate isnt at a 180 or 90* bend against the normal air flow that which would cause a large obstruction after desired boost is made. Soooo many idiots mount them this way even on their custom work. It shouldn't have more than about a 60* angle. a Y type would probably be best(45*?)


I'll have the engine on a stand so it wont matter much. I'll probably push the radiator forward just a bit and gut the AC out to make additional room if it comes to it.

I'm needing to make more final decisions on compression ratio, and pistons/rods. I'm on the fence about flat top or dished. I also wont be running this car when its 100 freakign degrees outside.
 

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Heh the afr is different, but the lambda value for stoich is still 1.0 no matter what fuel. Did you eat your wheaties today?

I think pure alcohol is like 9.0 , so 9.8 to 10.0 range for e85's stoich? 12.0 is rich for gas, 6.0 is rich for alcohol, so id guess e85 to be around 7.0-7.5 for a rich mix, without starting to go too rich.

Its hard to tell how lean you can run an engine, you have to watch the EGT's and play with ignition timing while leaning it out(as i understand). Probably would be a good idea to have some kind of knock sensor.

Id like to get an ostrich setup with several tuned profiles or I could get a flip switch to use those stacked chips, where you can have 2 different configs at a quick switch. I could even keep the car from running if the kid gets the keys. Heh.

It would be cool if you could use a jump drive in your ostrich to select 1 of a few profiles depending on the driving you were about to do :)


Honestly I don't know about E85 aside from whats out there that seems like reliable information.

What I have found though is that E85 produces a little more exhaust gases than Gasoline. Its also cooler, so as we all know cooler air is more dense, more density will drive objects with more force, so turbocharging should have some smal advantages with E85, more so in the low rpm range.

I plan on making a custom manifold for my application, where the wastegate isnt at a 180 or 90* bend against the normal air flow that which would cause a large obstruction after desired boost is made. Soooo many idiots mount them this way even on their custom work. It shouldn't have more than about a 60* angle. a Y type would probably be best(45*?)


I'll have the engine on a stand so it wont matter much. I'll probably push the radiator forward just a bit and gut the AC out to make additional room if it comes to it.

I'm needing to make more final decisions on compression ratio, and pistons/rods. I'm on the fence about flat top or dished. I also wont be running this car when its 100 freakign degrees outside.
let me guess. you have read some articles but have never tuned before?
 

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let me guess. you have read some articles but have never tuned before?
yeap. I've read alot, however I dont count any of it as being 100% factual(as most of it is nothing more than a good-ol-rule-othe-thumb crap) I know enough to get started and work bugs out, tuning for max power isn't something Id consider myself worthy of. I learn quickly because of a wide knowledge in many different things, not that I'm a guru at any one thing.

Theres very few articles I trust, because many lack the math and science to back up their claims.

I though about getting a COP setup and running a SDS-efi ecu. I don't know if they have an antilag option though. COP is by far superior to distributors. I'm just not sure if its worth the extra cost for a first time build. Granted i wont have to buy the coils again, as far as I know I'd have to get a different module to control the COP if I went with a chipped honda ecu. Not something Id want to get into a first time around.

Whats your perfered way of tuning as software and hardware goes? Like something other than stock chipped ecus from hondas? I'm biased towards eCtune as software goes right now.

EDIT: yea sds-efi has antilag, not sure how well it works compared to others.

Kinda on the fence about MAP sensors. lots of people love GM's 3bar map. I've been able to find mixed reviews of about everything, with the motorola 2.5bar map sensor as having the best stable voltage output. Omnipower brags about theirs but unless I have sensors in hand I can't test them with my fluke. o_O You got input for me there?
 

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AFR = lambda * fuel stoich

a lambda value is is not determined or formulated by the type of fuel. its a separate entity. AFR is just an interpretation solely determine by the fuel type used. 13:1 AFR gasoline is the same 13:1 E85 (only with ~40% more fuel added to make up for the stoich difference)

if you calibrate/program your lambda sensor for the stoich value of the fuel you are using, yes the AFR will show up different but you dont have to do that, its not necessary. You can leave it to read regular gasoline so its "easier" to read. I tuned e85 just like I tuned gasoline. e85 simply takes A LOT more fuel compared to a gasoline which is why you have to run larger injectors and a pump to support them.

there is absolutely no need to go COP if you cannot utilize its benefits. Meaning you better make a whole shit ton of power. stock honda distributors are support 500whp+.
hondata currently has a COP setup but i think its a waste of money until you are getting into serious power.

I've used all of the honda softwares and a lot. I prefer neptune. calvin @ eCtune rubbed me the wrong way. Something James @ neptune has never done, even when i call or text him at 3am in the morning.

I dont really have a preference when it comes to standalones. I love the haltech unit, AEMpro is decent, AEMtuner is even better. I've got a couple others i have played around with on my laptop but no experience with but would love to. those would be Autronic, Link G4, and Motec.

As far as map sensors, most of my customers have used GM 3bars.
 

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I've used all of the honda softwares and a lot. I prefer neptune. calvin @ eCtune rubbed me the wrong way. Something James @ neptune has never done, even when i call or text him at 3am in the morning.

I dont really have a preference when it comes to standalones. I love the haltech unit, AEMpro is decent, AEMtuner is even better. I've got a couple others i have played around with on my laptop but no experience with but would love to. those would be Autronic, Link G4, and Motec.

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I know with is a bit off-topic but im just wondering your opinion on why piggybacks seem to work? and your opinion on using megasquirt..
 

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there is absolutely no need to go COP if you cannot utilize its benefits. Meaning you better make a whole shit ton of power. stock honda distributors are support 500whp+.
hondata currently has a COP setup but i think its a waste of money until you are getting into serious power..
Or make the ultimate gas saver saver:cool
 

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Then do you just do a lambda tune and never bother looking at the afr? Many people say e85 requires extra fuel work, not just larger lines, as it tends to conduct electricity, some people say its bad about being corrosive. I recently read a good atricle on some people doing a e85 silverado build. Ill get the link when I get home.

COP isn't something I've gotta have, but it would be nice. Its not that hondas distributor system isn't enough for 300-500 hp. Its the precision of spark you can achieve with a COP ignition.

I guess if I buy an H22a4(98+) and resleeve it I could go all out with a COP setup. Since this will be a f22b1 with just pistons rods and head studs I guess it wont make much of a difference for around 300-350 hp/tq.

Minimum timing for best torque eh?
 

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Its over your a head a bit..

It takes 20-30% more fuel with E85 to aquire the same target AFR as it does on 93 pump gas.. thats it.. instead of having a 187 fuel value @ idle you might have 210 .. AFR targets are the same.. this isn't hard to understand.
 
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