[bluesman2a]

First, let me say I'm a neophyte in this arena, done a lot of wrenching, just not on new cars, so please go easy on me. I've searched the archives and nothing seems to fit.

I've read about the much vaunted A-V6 problems. I am one of the 1.6%, I've already had one tranny and torque converter replaced under warranty at 35K.

The current specs are:
2000 Accord V-6 Sedan with 4 speed auto 36,000 miles. This thing is a commuter, I don't hammer it, I have other toys for that.

The problem (same before AND after tranny replacement):
Under light acceleration or steady cruise speeds at lower RPM's there's a hesitation/shudder. The dealer started out by telling me that it was the torque converter, I was crazy, and they couldn't recreate the problem. After waiting a month for an appointment with a regional service director, he pipes up after about 1/2 mile and says I have a classic case of "lean-surge" that the car is within spec and there was nothing they could do to fix the problem.

Mitigating data:
Recently had EGR problem and they fixed it under warranty.
Replaced faulty IAC valve and reset base idle
replaced tranny/torque converter at 35K

Questions:
1) Is this "lean-surge" the BS I think it is?
2) Is this likely to be another problem tranny?
3) Anything else I can have them look at (would MAP sensor, CPS, or hondaequivalent be able to cause this problem)?
4) Is there anything I can do myself to diagnose the issue, my faith in my local dealer, while never particularly high, is currently NILL).
5) Is there any aftermarket product that I can purchase that would help this (i.e. programmer to set tranny for stiffer shift-points)?

Any and all assistance would be appreciated. The district service manager is still giving me the run-around, anything I can do to get beyond him would also be appreciated.

 

[V6 i VTEC]

OK, time to put a stop to the run-around.

I had this same problem with my Accord last year. It was described to me in the same manor. From what I under stand is that under a light load going up a hill when you feel the shudder, it's the engine trying to get the leanest possible fuel mixture to run on ... unfortunately it's obvious, and damn annoying. It truly feels like the torque convertor shuddering when it goes in to lock-up.

The fix ....

Well it's not a 100% complete fix, but it helps the problem. There's an updated transmission ECU, and Fuel pressure regulator. The trans ECU changes the shift points a lil, and when the torque convertor locks-up. The fuel pressure reg. is to increase the amount of fuel being injected just slightly. Another factor is the heat/humidiity. Hot air being drawn into the lean burning cylinder makes is even worse. After they installed the new equipment my car was better, but every once in a while I could still feel it. When I put my AEM short ram intake on minus the bumper mounted lower air intake resonater and a shield to keep the heat away from the intakes' filter cone ... the problem damn near went away.

So go to your Honda dealer and ask them about the tranny computer and fuel press. regulater. If they don't know tell them to contact Honda technical assitance...it took me there times complaining and they finally fixed it.

 

[bluesman2a]

Thank-you-Thank-you

That's GREAT information! It DIRECTLY contradicts what the district service manager told me (I asked if they could flash it or anything). I thought he was a putz.

I would really appreciate it if anybody here could help me build a case. Where could I go/look for part numbers or case records to validate my case? Or does anybody have this info?

 

[V6 i VTEC]

I work for a dealership, and they all operate about the same. They may have several cases of this problem, and have what they call a "field fix" for it. If someone complains about it they'll do the required repair(s). They may also have a Technical Service Bullentin on this problem. If not just go back and tell them that you now of the problem, and you heard of an upgraded Trans ECU and what not.

 

[divinewisdom]

well i got my tranny replace. it seems to be working ok, just once in a while the laggs seems like more than others. i dont notice any shudder or anything. but then again i have the AEM short ram plus no resenator.

now thinking of putting my stock intake on and adding the k&n filter. but i am going to elave out the resenator and make like a tubbbing to draw air from the under the car into the stock unit.
you thiunk itll work?

 

[KLIQUE_13]

V6 I VteC do u use to work for Crown honda?

 

[imported]

Could you describe what this lean surge is in a lil more deatil? I think I may have it, although not on an av6, but my moms civic. It's auto, and they are damn expensive to fix...just looking to see if the problem I think i have is in fact a "lean-surge" and what I can do to help fix it.
Thanks

 

[V6 i VTEC]

V6 I VteC do u use to work for Crown honda?

Nope, never worked for Crown. Do you think you know me?

 

[Katana]

It seems as if a TSB was issued for the low speed vibration.

You can see a list of all the TSBs for your car/year here: http://www.alldata.com/TSB/24/002425AX.html

Number 15 could be your problem (A/T - Vibration When Driving at Low Speeds).

Good luck!

 

[bluesman2a]

HAAA!!!

In nosing around, I found a couple of items that may be helpful to others:

1) The AllData site listed above has Honda TSB's listed, but not much meat. The advantage is that they have them listed by numbers Honda can cross-reference.

2) Once you have a TSB number you can call Honda America and have them fax you the full content of the TSB (800)999-1009.

3) http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/index.cfm has a much more comprehensive listing of TSB's searchable by year, model, make, and assembly sub-group. The summaries are better than all-data too, but the ID #'s do not readily match what Honda lists.

3.5) The bastiches at honda are trying to clamp down on information to individual consumers. AllData JUST came up with this notice this morning: The American Honda Motor Company, Inc. has requested ALLDATA restrict access to Acura and Honda repair information by individual consumers. You will unfortunately not be able to register for access to Acura or Honda vehicle repair information, technical service bulletins or recalls.

4) TSB 00-053 explains what I believe my current problem to be. It would appear that there is an upgraded PCM (Powertrain Control Module) that must be matched with a certain fuel pressure regulator in order to function properly. Side note: The fargin' bastiches at the dealership replaced my fuel sending unit for a bad gas-gauge about the time this started. Suspect they put the wrong model FPS back in. (if there is interest, I would be happy to scan it and post the contents here).

5) The dealership mentioned on the phone last night that Honda is increasing its warranty on these trannies to 100K miles!!!

6) There is also TSB 99-085 for clogging EGR ports. The warranty on this has been extended to 80K miles. Essentially on this they go in, drill out the crud and put in a polymer sealer to keep it from re-occuring. It's my understanding that they will not perform this until the engine codes, but it typically happens at 30-40K miles.

I want to thank everybody who responded with good tech info. This board is a wealth of information.

 

[bluesman2a]

I give up...[VENT]

Sorry to say it folks, but after getting my vehicle back from service yesterday with the explanation that it is once again "totally within spec" and that none of the TSB's apply.... I WANTED to love my Honda, and keep it for 100k+!!! That's why I BOUGHT a Honda.

Funny, but the service tech is back to blaming the torque converter, despite the fact that the regional service manager is POSITIVE it's "lean-surge"... Smells like BS all the way.

I'm selling this POS hooptie-transmission having rolling headache. Been dealing with it and Honda America's crap since July, and I'm done.

Honda has lost a lifetime customer, I currently own 2 Accords, and owned two Civics. Never again if this is how they treat loyal customers.

To top it off 0.0% financing makes it CHEAPER to own/drive another vehicle ANYways!

But I would like to thank those here who helped, and got me pointed in the right direction. There's a wealth of information out here, if you know where to look. I appreciate it folks.

If anybody has any good contacts, names, numbers, or addresses, I sure would like to write a letter expressing my satisfaction level and maybe send along photocopy of my new window sticker to show them I'm serious.

 

[drumminrobs84]

Honda surge/sputtering

Hey Bluesman,

I recently bought a 2002 Accord v6 and am experiencing the same kind of symptoms. My Accord has 17000 mile on it and it surges or shutters most noticably at highway speeds. I was sure it had to be the tranny but now am convinced it has something to do with the AC system. While driving at interstate speeds on a long trip, I got tired of the surging and started to try different things to make it do its thing. I notice that when I turn the air on, it makes the car surge. When I leave it on I notice it surge randomly. When I turn the air off, the problem seems to disappear. I took it to the Honda dealer and of course they said everything was fine...go figure. Let me know if this has any bearing on your situation as I am frustrated beyond belief. Have you contacted the BIG GUYS at Honda. If so, let me know who to contact as I would like to give them a piece of my mind.

Thanks!!!

 

[divinewisdom]

Hey Bluesman,

I recently bought a 2002 Accord v6 and am experiencing the same kind of symptoms. My Accord has 17000 mile on it and it surges or shutters most noticably at highway speeds. I was sure it had to be the tranny but now am convinced it has something to do with the AC system. While driving at interstate speeds on a long trip, I got tired of the surging and started to try different things to make it do its thing. I notice that when I turn the air on, it makes the car surge. When I leave it on I notice it surge randomly. When I turn the air off, the problem seems to disappear. I took it to the Honda dealer and of course they said everything was fine...go figure. Let me know if this has any bearing on your situation as I am frustrated beyond belief. Have you contacted the BIG GUYS at Honda. If so, let me know who to contact as I would like to give them a piece of my mind.

Thanks!!!

i'll be honest with you guys. you can see my post above from 2002 that i got a new tranny then. well this is 2004, and i just got my second tranny replaced, so i am currently running on my third tranny. i am at 96k miles.

to be frank, all the stated above will help; but its not going to solve any of the problem. i know, i am on my third tranny! :cry seems like the life of all the tranny and torque converter is only at 45k miles max. best bet is to buy extended warranty.

some other problems that is common to the accord v6: alternator, tranny, idle mechanism, torque converter (need to replace tranny to replace tc), EGR, hesitation, headache.

i have been wanting to get rid of my car for the longest, but i really like the way it looks. lol