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Im going to do a swap this summer. First I was thinking of a gsr motor then I thought about an si motor. Im doing a turbo and other things. My HX is auto. Do you guys think I should leave it and beef it up or just throw a 5 spd in it?
 

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are you f'ing with me? If you are going to install a new engine with the possibility of a turbo, wouldn't you like to choose the shift points rather than some damn computer? Seriously though, I would definitely go with the 5 spd. It might give you some headaches installing it, but once you get it in and take it out racing, you'll like it a whole lot better. I spanked a 01 civic ex that had an auto, but two nights later, some hot chick with a 01 ex with 5spd and a little extra work took my money. She was hot so I didn't really mind giving her my money.:D
 

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i just went over this with someone else, keeping your car an auto and doing a swap is WAY harder than just converting it, TRUST ME i've done the conversion i know, swaps with autos are for posers that can't drive stick
 

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do the swap and swap out the tranny to. like trnetdx said. look for that other post and you'll see why. and i'd go with the b18c over the b16a2.
 

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i would get a 5 spd if i were you, i got an auto, and it took a supercharger in order for me to get to stock 5 spd ETAs. I regret the auto, but at the time i bought the car i only wanted it to look good, i didn't care about performance, but all i have done so far is performance stuff
 

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guys he has an hx auto which means his auto dont switch gears, its a cvt tranny, which is awesome for racing but cant handle anything. I had that tranny and it died at 93k miles, so i had to do an auto to manual swap.
 

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HybridJDMHonda
Definantly put a 5spd in there. Autos suck for racing unless you are pushing like 1,000hp, then it dosent really matter.


trentdx
i just went over this with someone else, keeping your car an auto and doing a swap is WAY harder than just converting it, TRUST ME i've done the conversion i know, swaps with autos are for posers that can't drive stick

buzz0101
are you f'ing with me? If you are going to install a new engine with the possibility of a turbo, wouldn't you like to choose the shift points rather than some damn computer? Seriously though, I would definitely go with the 5 spd.

WTF..?!!? You guys smoke more weed than I DO! Do you have ANY brain cells left...? What do the TOP Fuel Dragsters run... fuckin manuals? NOPE. Try Automatic, there's your answer!

I'm glad to see people on this board started learning about www.levelten.com In the last version of superhonda, I'd post about them about 10 times a day! Anyway, do a search for Auto versus Manual. With a simple torque converter, an auto will be eatin' up most of you guys with the manual, who have to take your foot off the gas, push down a clutch, and press the gas again, and do the same thing 3 more times before you figure out... damn... he didn't jump between gears!

Look, I know a lot of you all can drive a manual transmission like nobody's business, but even at your BEST... you could NEVER do 20 runs and have ALL the times come up within a .08 second difference!

Manual (STOCK) might equal power, but not consistency.
AUTO (stock) might equal consistency
But AUTO (w/ t.c.) equals power and consistency...

Peace!
 

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I'm not trying to flame manual trannies, just my opinnion and preference...

but just so you know, (although I don't know what tranny you want to do, since I stayed all motor EX SOHC), here's a little info about the TRANNY options you've got if you DO want a manual. You'll find out it's a lot cheaper to keep the auto, even if you do a FULL OUT RACING tranny rebuild.

If you INSIST on going manual.. get the GSR or maybe even the TYPE R if you can afford it... WELL WORTH IT, here's the ratios:

............RS/LS ..... GS-R ..... Type R
1st ..... 3.230..... 3.230 ..... 3.230
2nd ..... 1.900 ..... 1.900 ..... 2.105
3rd ..... 1.269 ..... 1.360 ..... 1.468
4th..... 0.966 ..... 1.034 ..... 1.117
5th ..... 0.714 ..... 0.787 ..... 0.850
FD ..... 4.266 ..... 4.400 ..... 4.800


if anyone knows the ratios in a d series tranny, can you let me know? i'm trying to put more info together on that?
 

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True confessions from a guy who did the GSR tranny swap. HE swears it's well worth it...


"Never mind the hype on the numbers and the ratios of these trannys, but god---m.... this thing is crazy. It is a TREMENDOUS difference (seat-of-the- pants type) after the switch from LS to Y2 <=== my correction.

First gear pulls much harder, but the crazy part is the switch to 2nd... oh my! The rpm's drop literally about 50% of what they used to.. at a 8500 shift it drops to ~7100 and spins literally (no exaggeration) the WHOLE of 2nd gear... and these arn't stock VX tires... DUNLOP SP2000 205/50/15's. Shift to 3rd and it lights up... the drop is the same.. to 7100. You don't notice how quicker it revvs up until you hit 3rd... it is a HUGE difference. 3rd obviously takes a little longer to wind-out and hit 4th... tires spin a bit and in my estimate the 1/4 ends just before the end of 4th. With 20" slicks I estimate the 1320 ending at around 8700 in 4th gear.

To whoever reads this... guys/girls... if you can somehow get this or the Type-R tranny.... or at least the gears and switch them to your LS or GS-R's... PLEASE DO SO.... the difference is incredible. I have NEVER felt such a big difference out of anything that I have done to the motor... I don't know how this will translate to E.T's but it WORKS.... I am just so ecstatic."
 

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Let's compare the GSR and RS tranny. The first two gears are the same.

However, 3rd and 4th gear are about 7% shorter, and 5th gear is 10% shorter ((0.787-0.714)/.714). Let us assume that the final drive is the same for now. In 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears, you will get noticeably improved acceleration. It's almost like having 7% more torque in 3rd and 4th at any given time (it's not quite like this, and I'll get to that in a moment) and 10% more torque in 5th. This comes at the sacrifice of top speed in any given gear. Now, with a 7000 rpm redline, top speed is about 220 km/h rev limited (it's still got lots to go... it literally 'slams' into the limiter) with the GSR tranny. Personally, you don't need to be up that high on the race track. YOU ideally like to increase FD to get even better acceleration at the expense of top speed, which brings us to the next topic: FD.

FD is exactly what it says... the final reduction through the tranny before the driveshafts. It affects all gears. The total reductions for the gears would be the gear ratio multiplied times FD. Thus, if your engine is at 5000 rpm, and you are in 4th gear using a GSR tranny (total reduction of 4.4*1.034=4.55), the driveshafts would be turning at 1100 rpm (the calculated speed using 577 mm as the nominal tire diameter would be 120 km/h, which pretty much corresponds to my speedo). FD increases the overall ratio for all gears without affecting gear spacing. Gear spacing determines how much engine speed drops between shifts. For 2-3,3-4, and 4-5, gear spacing is very good on the GSR tranny. However, from 1-2 the gap is a factor of 0.59. Thus, if you shift at 7000 rpm, you'll end up at about 4100 rpm :) . I suspect the reason Honda did this is to give good starting power in 1st gear in a car that doesn't have much low end torque. Anyways, looking at the Type R ratios, one can see that the gap between 1-2 is 1.54, which is much better. The gaps between the other gears remain the same as on the GSR. Honda has basically just moved gears 2-5 'closer' to 1st gear. If we ignore 1st gear, a Type R tranny is essentially a GSR tranny with a 4.7-4.8 FD.

Now back to the issue of why improving a gear by 7% isn't quite the same as getting 7% more torque. When you do this, the top speed in that particular gear will be reduced and thus you'll have to shift sooner. Thus, you'll be spending the 'extra' time that you would have been in the lower gear with the poorer ratios in a higher gear with the better ratios. Even though the better higher gear has better ratios, it still won't be as good as the poorer lower gear. But overall, the effect is improved acceleration and lap times. There is a limit though. Shifting takes time and thus you don't want to have a zillion gears spaced 0.99 apart with an engine with a big SPIKE for it's powerband :). That is why Formula 1 and Indy cars are generally limited to 6-7 gears. In CONTRAST, you could go the other way by using a non-vtec tranny and GSR motor, in hopes of being able to stay in 3rd for a 1/4 mile run. With this particular setup, that may just be the way to go for a 1/4 mile run. However, with 7000 rpm redline, the shorter gearing you can get the better. With the gsr tranny, you'd have to make 4 shifts during your 1/4 mile runs (sometimes you get into 5th), but all are pretty quick and most people definitely get better times due to the gearing.
 

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k i'm not going to lie, i didn't even bother reading the 2 above post, but i'll vouch that the gsr is a killer tranny, here's y

i raced my friends Si that has i/e/h and me header and filter b16 swap in my dx hatch, she didn't spin, just hooked up off the line, i spun and still pulled in first gear away by about 1/3 car length, into second then it was all over same engine less mods weight might have also play a big role too, but we didn't bother to take and have our car weighed befor racing at a stop light :D
 

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CivicNOS1 said:
In CONTRAST, you could go the other way by using a non-vtec tranny and GSR motor, in hopes of being able to stay in 3rd for a 1/4 mile run.
i have a GSR tranny mated to my b16a2, i stay in 3rd for the 1/4mile
 

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HybridJDMHonda said:


Definantly put a 5spd in there. Autos suck for racing unless you are pushing like 1,000hp

I dont understand why you quote me...... I said what you said right here.....


CivicNOS1 said:


What do the TOP Fuel Dragsters run... fuckin manuals? NOPE. Try Automatic, there's your answer!

Well, considering this guy isnt going to have a TOP Fuel Dragster it dosent really matter does it? On smaller hp/tq engines having an automatic transmission slows you down. You cant compare a car with 700+hp that runs on alchoal to one that pushes 170+hp that runs on pump gas. Street legal cars are faster with manual transmissons! This guy has a Civic not a Top Fuel Dragster!
 

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Try more like 5000hp-7000hp
your also talking about a purpose built wad of techno babble that
runs faster than a 5sec 1/4mile, when talking about a civic,
you use a 5speed to drag race... do you think any of the ppl
that are on top in the nira are running autos in their civic???
get a fucking clue, were not talking about top fuel, this is the civic board.
 

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trentdx said:
Try more like 5000hp-7000hp
your also talking about a purpose built wad of techno babble that
runs faster than a 5sec 1/4mile, when talking about a civic,
you use a 5speed to drag race... do you think any of the ppl
that are on top in the nira are running autos in their civic???
get a fucking clue, were not talking about top fuel, this is the civic board.
Was this directed towards me or CivicNOS1?
 

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hey man, he's talking to me; JDM...

But dudes, trent, until YOU get one of your slow ass cars up above the 15 second range, shut the fuck up! What do you know about auto OR manual? Even JDM admits in his sig that his shit's slow.


I was using TOP fuel to prove a point. If it's better for a car that runs 5's wouldn't you want it in your 15 second pinto, asshole! Otherwise, why would there be ANY civics putting in a damn turbo. IF you continue your theology, then people shouldn't put turbos on civics because THEY WERE MADE FOR FASTER CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is IT?

And there may be no body at nira running auto... that you know of! BUt how many races you been too? EVER seen The Supra Turbo that Level Ten built an auto tranny for???

I Thought not. Because then you would have rememberred seeing it whoop ass on ANY SUPRA TURBO manual, before you opened your big mouth. I wasn't out to flame, but fuckit, you seem like an ass. So I'll make an exception. Tell me autos suck? I say you suck... and unless you can prove it... don't bother saying shit.
 
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