BDC Catches HONDA CORP in Another Lie !!! Or Does He ???

5671 Views 107 Replies 27 Participants Last post by showgunz, Aug 12, 2002

BlackDeuceCoupe

Discussion Starter · Feb 22, 2002

3

I use 10W30 Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil and Red Line MT-90 [75W90 GL-4] synthetic tranny oil in my HX. I don't mind spending $4.00 and $8.00 a quart [respectively] 'cause I want the best. Having said that, I think it's laughable that Honda Corp recommends lightweight oils in their state-side rides.

Sure, I've used 5W30 Mobil 1 and Red Line MTL in snow country [and recommended them under THOSE conditions], but in retrospect, I believe using 'light' oil generally has nothing to do with anything 'practical' and everything to do with Honda Corp being able to boast about building "green" vehicles; cars that easily exceed American CAFE laws. Using water-thin oil helps them in this effort...

Want proof???

Here's what Honda offers the Americans; piss-poor R&D tested API SG/SH oils:

Now, look at the oils Honda Corp recommends for the rest of the world; R&D developed 20W50 API SJ oil and MTF Plus:

Are there any Unofficial Honda apologists amongst us that feel like defending this fraud on the U.S. public? Is Honda Corp justified in misleading gullible Americans into using inferior lubricants, just so they can brag about their 'environmentally correct' vehicles? You be the judge...

I think this sucks!!!

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Honda_Guy

· #2 · Feb 22, 2002

You arent surprised, are you? Kinda like the Sprite commercials only opposite- image is everything....

Civic_Grl_Rcr

· #3 · Feb 22, 2002

I did not realize that. Not that I am shocked or anything. When it comes to performance oriented vehicles, we get what seems to be the end of the line in all of it!

Makes you wonder what marketing information they are using to make these "judgement calls"

I don't use honda oils. 10W-30 Castrol and Redline Transmission.

For the clutch, brake, etc, fluid fills, what would you recommend??

BlackDeuceCoupe

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 22, 2002

Civic_Grl_Rcr said:
For the clutch, brake, etc, fluid fills, what would you recommend??

LOL! Good one, CGR!

As you may know, I recommend and personally use ONLY HONDA OEM JUICE for EVERYTHING else. You DO NOT want to use anything else in your brake system, cooling system, P/S, clutch, et cetera, except Honda fluids. The one exception would be Red Line Water Wetter, and that would be in extreme cases only.

I use 4 oz. of Water Wetter in my ride during the summer months because I drive 800-1000 miles a week in southern Arizona; one of the hottest places on Earth.

Water Wetter works because it is a surficant. It allows the transfer of heat from the head to the 'water' by not allowing large bubbles to form and stick to the metal surfaces of the water jacket in the head, hence, the name. It makes water 'wetter.' Get it???

Example: when you heat a pan of water on the stove, bubbles form that stick to the pan. Bubbles won't transfer heat from metal as well as liquid.

If you put Water Wetter in the pan of water, only V tiny bubbles form and release from the pan almost instantly. In your cylinder head, this is what occurs, allowing the head to remain cooler by transferring the heat to the coolant, thus preventing detonation, et cetera.

The only problem with Water Wetter is that it has MAD Ph. That is, as it 'wears out' it will erode and corrode your cooling system. Red Line recommends you dump it or replenish it every 15,000 miles. I dump and flush my cooling system every 15,000 anyway, so it's no big deal. If you're running Red Line Water Wetter and don't replace it every 15K [per Red Line's instructions], you WILL fuck up your cooling system --- SO, BEWARE!!!

Another point I would like to make is that Honda sells Americans two different kinds, or "types", of coolant; Type-I and Type-II. Type-I is straight Honda-spec anti-freeze. Type-II is mixed 50:50 with water.

Don't be a sucker and pay $5.00 a gallon for water!!!

Buy Type-I Honda coolant only...

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BlackDeuceCoupe

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 22, 2002

******* said:
Why exactly is the MTF a joke?

It's dinosaur juice for one thing. If increased performance and decreased wear is your goal, does it make sense to run syn juice in the motor and dino juice in the tranny?

Secondly, Honda offers zero information, in the states, regarding tranny oil specs. It took ME a long time to figure out what to run in my manual box. I finally realized that the factory fill was API GL-4 and switched. Honda purposely hides this information...

Thirdly, Honda recommended that Americans use motor oil in their trannies for years. What's that sh!t all about. Are ppl really THAT stupid? Never mind; they are...

And, lastly, Honda sells MTF PLUS to everyone else, and MTF LIGHT to us. Don't you smell a rat too???

the 20W-50 is only to support those new state of the art 7th gen civics and other mini van related models.

Wrong!!! Honda Corp recommends 5W20 in Gen 7 'United Snakes of Amerika' models only. That's even lighter and obviously designed to help them exceed CAFE regs.

Also explain oil weights while you are at it.

Well, let's keep it short. The first number is the actual weight of the oil. 5W20 or 5W30 is actually 5-weight oil. 10W30 is 10-weight oil. 20W50 is 20-weight oil. That's all you need to know on that subject.

Secondly, unlike syn oil, dinosaur juice needs VI's to increase the viscosity. VI's suck; they shear and thicken the base oil as it gets older, i.e. 20W50 dino juice gets thicker as you run it and eventually turns to 'goo' if you run it long enough.

MOST syn oils don't require any VI's. That's one of the biggest reasons to use them. The second biggest reason is syn oil DOES NOT BURN in the combustion chamber, unlike dino juice which lowers octane and causes detonation. But, that's a different subject...

If you feel like you need to run dinosaur juice, make sure you get one with the smallest number spread. 20W/50 has a spread of 30 and requires LOTS of VI's. 5W30 has a spread of 25 and needs less. 10W30 has a spread of 20 and needs V little. 5W20 has a spead of 15. Get the idea?

If you're running multi-grade dino juice, stick with the smallest number spread you can get. 10W30 is a good compromise. If you run syn juice [highly recommended] it doesn't matter.

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BlackDeuceCoupe

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 23, 2002

3

chunky said:
Wanna take a shot at explaining the second one? The second one is the more important number in terms of viscosity breakdown .

What 'second one?' What are you talking about???

Sure you showed us the pictures of some 20w-50 oils, but what models do they go in? on the oil caps of any JDM motors i've seen, the oil weights reccomended are the same as the USDM counterparts (b16a2, b18c1, b18c-r/b18c5).

Back on you, bro... If Honda recommends 5W20 and 5W30 motor oil in all their cars, why do 'they' sell 20W50 Honda motor oil at their dealerships? They sell 20W50 Honda motor oil at my dealer in Phoenix. Want me to take a picture of that too?

Oh, that's right... we're not supposed to believe what we see; only what we THINK we see...

As for the tranny fluid, Honda wants to sell you their transmission fluid. I'm not sure what the spec on it is...

My point exactly! They don't want you to know either. It took me a few weeks to figure it out.

Look, Honda oil sucks! I've ridden Honda M/C for years. I still own three of them. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, uses Honda oil in their M/C's. I run Castrol GTX 20W50 dino juice in 4-stroke Honda's and Bel-Ray MC-1 [@ 50:1] in my 2-strokes.

Honda tells you to run motor oil in their 2-stroke M/C trannies too. Nobody does. That is, nobody smart. Smart ppl run Dexron ATF in Honda M/C trannies. This "use Honda oil only" mentality exists in Honda automotive circles only!!!

Here comes the rice-boys... The logic: DUH! Honda knows what they're doing. Honda makes good engines and trannies. Honda recommends that you use there juices. Therefore, Honda oil is the best. OMG!!! What a bunch of morons...

As for honda reccomending that you keep the fluid in there for the life of the car, that's a crock of shit...

You're mixing apples 'n' oranges when you say "fluid." YOU SHOULD USE ONLY HONDA JUICE IN ALL OTHER SYSTEMS. Let's go through them one at a time:

Genuine Honda Power Steering Fluid

Power steering fluid has a significant effect on steering system performance. Honda PSF's low-friction formula uses a blend of hydrotreated mineral and synthetic base oils with special additives to reduce noise and provide superior performance. Nothing else compares...

Genuine Honda Brake Fluid

Basically DOT 3, but Honda Brake Fluid offers superior metal corrosion protection. It also enhances proper lubricity and fluidity, and maintains a high boiling point even in the most severe operating conditions. Nothing else compares...

Genuine Honda Antifreeze/Coolant

Designed specifically to protect the aluminum components in Honda engines and cooling systems, Honda Antifreeze/Coolant contains no abrasive silicates or borates. It uses an ethylene glycol base with special organic corrosion inhibitors for outstanding corrosion protection. There are others coolants that have these properties, but 95% don't. Good luck finding one; and it will cost more than Honda Antifreeze/Coolant anyway...

We've already discussed the motor and tranny juice, but...

Mobil 1 is the best motor oil for your CiViC. Mobil 1 is the standard fill in [most] 'cost is no object' 17,000+ RPM F1 motors. And, it works just fine, thank you! If it's good enough for a spec'ed out F1 engine, I'm sure it's good enough for your sh!tbox CiViC. Would you like to argue that???

And, while there are other API GL-4 syn gearbox lubes out there that will work okay in your Honda, like Neo 75W-90 HD; Red Line MTL and MT-90 are the best choice for Honda CiViC's IMO. Evidently you don't believe this to be true.

I guess your whole agrument boils down to which manual tranny juice to use. Honda MTF, which nobody knows what it is [gear oil? motor oil? pig fat?], sells for $3.25/qt. Red Line gear lubes sell for $7.95/qt. Which would you guess is best???

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RichyRichaPC

· #7 · Feb 23, 2002

fuck, now that I know this, I'm going to sell my car and get a toyota!

BlackDeuceCoupe

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 23, 2002

RichyRichaPC said:
fuck, now that I know this, I'm going to sell my car and get a toyota!

Buy yourself a toy Yoda. It's cheaper...

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Accelerazn

· #9 · Feb 24, 2002

Lol!

haha bdc you are one funny guy... hahah awesome

Accelerazn

· #10 · Feb 24, 2002

oh yah

sticky this thread too.. i mite need it for future reference...

Ryocross

· #11 · May 5, 2002

I have used Honda MTF in my 89 CRX and the trans has 264,000 miles on it and the motor has had trouble, never the trans,
maybe I should switch now, before I ruin the tranmission.

TORONTO PIMP

· #12 · May 5, 2002

bdc with another gay post

tonesdefdsm

· #13 · May 5, 2002

its america honda not euope honda or japan honda. you must understand that the american honda does things differntly from the other honda corps. and you must understand americans are cheap bastards with there cars. and also could it be becuase most hondas in differnt countrys have more powerful engines than our american hondas. just something to think of

BlackDeuceCoupe

Discussion Starter · #14 · May 5, 2002

tonesdefdsm said:
its america honda not euope honda or japan honda. you must understand that the american honda does things differntly from the other honda corps. and you must understand americans are cheap bastards with there cars. and also could it be becuase most hondas in differnt countrys have more powerful engines than our american hondas. just something to think of

Yeah, you're right; probably MORE than you realize. Did YOU know that ALL CiViC coupes are made by HAM, for instance, out of 75% American parts? Basically, Honda CiViC coupes are domestics!

Chiovnidca

· #15 · May 5, 2002

tonesdefdsm said:
could it be becuase most hondas in differnt countrys have more powerful engines than our american hondas. just something to think of

Could this be because the US has tighter emission standards than other countries?

BlackDeuceCoupe

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 5, 2002

Chiovnidca said:
Could this be because the US has tighter emission standards than other countries?

Yes, exactly! I mentioned CAFE briefly above.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy [CAFE] standards were instituted in 1975. Their primary feature was a 27.5 miles per gallon statutory standard for passenger automobiles. One major loop-hole in the current CAFE program is that it holds light-trucks and SUV's to a lower fuel economy standard than passenger cars. This has caused an extra 40,000 deaths since the 70's, because 'we' are mandated to drive cheaply built death-traps, while 'they' are allowed to drive gas-guzzling, oversized, land yachts --- but, that's a different story...

Several low-tech remedies exist to make vehicles more fuel efficient while keeping them cheap to manufacture. These technologies include tire tread designs, increased use of aluminum and plastics, and yes, inferior super-thin, light-duty, low-drag, 'factory fill' oils.

tonesdefdsm

· #17 · May 5, 2002

BlackDeuceCoupe said:
Yeah, you're right; probably MORE than you realize. Did YOU know that ALL CiViC coupes are made by HAM, for instance, out of 75% American parts? Basically, Honda CiViC coupes are domestics!

but since are cars arn't has high performing as there counter parts there might not be such o need for stonrger oil. also in japan and europe there speed limits are much higher and that means more stress on engines and also there road ways are more compact wich leads to more stop and go traffic wich leads to more engine stress and trans stress. i'm just trying to maybe so you why we don't need the higher brand oil. This is just my thought. honda here is more of a gas saving econy company and in japan they have more of an eye for performance differnt lands differnt companys differnt thought process.

tonesdefdsm

· #18 · May 5, 2002

Chiovnidca said:
Could this be because the US has tighter emission standards than other countries?

not totaly. ever heard of the kyoto protcol. over 160 counties signed this saying they would clean up there act and that has lead to tighter emission stards across the global. my freind from poland tells me when ever i b*tch about emissions tha..... way worse there i guess there a lot tighter on that stuff than we are. they even go to the point if you car looks like crap they just take it right there and don't btoher to test it.

soonhb

· #19 · May 6, 2002

yep . In Poland and most likely in all of Europe emissions are way different then here . there if you got a pos car then you cant register it , yearly smog checks that also include safety and mechanicial inspections. Also the bigger the engine size the more $$$ for insurance and tax . I guess that Europe is way stricker then USA .

tonesdefdsm

· #20 · May 6, 2002

soonhb said:
yep . In Poland and most likely in all of Europe emissions are way different then here . there if you got a pos car then you cant register it , yearly smog checks that also include safety and mechanicial inspections. Also the bigger the engine size the more $$$ for insurance and tax . I guess that Europe is way stricker then USA .

i don't know if his kiding or not but since his a noob i'll jus disregared him

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