[divinewisdom]

Toyota's Lexus brand is not yet a global player as a luxury marque, says German rival BMW.

"Toyota has lots of cash, but we are still waiting to welcome them in the premier league," said Stefan Krause, BMW board member in charge of finance.

BMW rivals such as Lexus, Saab, Infiniti and Jaguar are successful in one or possibly two key markets, but not globally.

Krause said only two premium brands can call themselves global: BMW and Mercedes-Benz. He pointedly ignored Volkswagen's Audi brand.

Stuart McCullough, Lexus Europe director, said: "We have a lot of work to do in Europe. But I hope people are starting to see where we are headed from our products and stand at the show."

As part of its ambition to catch BMW, Lexus aims to boost its sales in Europe, helped by its new IS lower-premium sedan, which debuted here with Lexus' first diesel engine.

The IS will go on sale in Europe with a new 2.5-liter, V-6 gasoline engine by the end of the year. A diesel version with a 175hp, 2.2-liter four-cylinder unit will follow early next year.

No build-to-order

Lexus aims to sell 65,000 cars in Europe by 2010. McCullough thinks the brand can reach that goal because of improvements to its powertrain options.

Besides offering diesel variants, Lexus plans to offer gasoline-electric powertrains in most of its models starting with the RX 400h, the hybrid version of its SUV, which goes on sale in Europe in June.

BMW's Krause said he will consider Lexus a true global rival when it has:

Designs that appeal worldwide

A consistent brand image in markets around the globe

A factory in Europe that can provide tailor-made build-to-order cars, which European premium customers demand.

Said McCullough: "I don't think build-to-order is the mark of a premium brand. We think there is room for us on the global stage."

autonews

 

[TheX-Man]

Has Lexus always been around in europe or did it have to be introduced there like it was in japan? Has lexus already debued in japan? Well either way, Lexus does have a ways to go especially when compared to M-B and BMW's lineup, but I think they'll continue to grow and will be a Global rivial soon. Funny thing is BMW isn't too much of a rival to Lexus in the US.

Lexus sold over 32k LS430s, any one know how many 7-Series sold? Also sold almost 76k ESs, Lexus also holds the crown for best selling luxury brand in the US 5 years in a row selling almost 300k. Every year Lexus has continually had record breaking years, so it'll only be a matter of time before they break into the euro market. It's probably difficult going into a market with existing domestic brands. GM, Ford, Chrysler are 1 2 & 3 here. The euro brands are probably the same over there as the japanese rule in the markets. Now I'm wondering how much of a threat is BMW to Toyota/Lexus in japan?

I think it's just BMW scared of what Lexus can do so they just try to insult them.

 

[dr_dohc]

Has Lexus always been around in europe or did it have to be introduced there like it was in japan? Has lexus already debued in japan?

lexus is made by toyota, toyota is orginated in japan...so yes, it had its debute there...

Funny thing is BMW isn't too much of a rival to Lexus in the US.

no kidding

Now I'm wondering how much of a threat is BMW to Toyota/Lexus in japan?

i don't think it is...the problem with japan is that they don't sell enough cars period...

I think it's just BMW scared of what Lexus can do so they just try to insult them.

isn't that just f#cking bs? those f#cks are cocky as hell... :mad

 

[Sprocket Rocket]

i agree with bmw.

 

[spray004]

I agree with BMW. If I wanted a premium luxury car, I wouldn't buy a Lexus or Acura. Lexus and Acura are low end luxury cars.

 

[dr_dohc]

i donno...if i wanted a premium lux car...IMO i think i would go with benz instead...

 

[jim accord]

lexus is made by toyota, toyota is orginated in japan...so yes, it had its debute there...

Actually no it hasn't. They were sold under the Toyota name there and only recently did Toyota announce they they were gonna use the Lexus name in Japan. I don't believe they are out yet.

 

[dr_dohc]

Actually no it hasn't. They were sold under the Toyota name there and only recently did Toyota announce they they were gonna use the Lexus name in Japan. I don't believe they are out yet.

oh yeah duh!!! all of the lexus cars were sold in japan as toyota...hahaha forgot bout that...still, its still a lexus

 

[DDR2]

just coz lexus is big in the US doesn't mean they're going to be succussful in becoming one of major luxury players like bmw or mercedes. remember, americans have different tastes than europeans, even japanese. bmw makes some valid points. lexus needs to create a global appeal for their cars to really take bmw head on. the US is their biggest market while at the same time it's not the only market for them. but if any japanese luxury brand can do it, lexus would be the one to do so. maybe that'll entice lexus to make some legitamate cars to compete with the M's, AMG's and RS cars.

 

[Shiba-Kun]

Toyota is the 2nd largest manufactorer in the world behind GM? I think I'm right about that stat but maybe somebody can back me uyp on that one... Generally speaking they can enter any market they desire and as long as they have the corporate determination to do so, & can be expected to succeed to a certain degree.

BMW on the other hand is pigeon holed by their branding and so far needs to buy other companies to branch out. (Ex: the 318ti DIED at the dealerships, but the Mini is a great success in the same demographics both cars targeted.)

I'm sure BMW is more worried about Toyota grabbing marketshare in Europe then vice versa.

 

[boostaholic]

pretty damn cocky~

 

[dropttopGT]

lexus is made by toyota, toyota is orginated in japan...so yes, it had its debute there...



no kidding



i don't think it is...the problem with japan is that they don't sell enough cars period...



isn't that just f#cking bs? those f#cks are cocky as hell... :mad

What he is saying is true. don't get your feelings all hurt. Lexus is not in every market around the world like BMW and MB. They will be soon though and BMW and MB knows that. They were just simply pointing out a fact. Also
I believe the last 2 years BMW was the best luxury nameplate in the US...
Also BMW has already sold more of the new body style 7's in 3 years than
all 7 years of the previous generation 7 series. Also the 3 series is the best selling car in it's class in America and the world...

 

[TheX-Man]

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20050104

According to toyota, lexus has been the best selling luxury brand in the US for 5 years. True Lexus doesn't have the types of cars that BMW and M-B has, but I'm sure they'll step up their game soon. I think in a REALLY old thread here there was a story about Lexus planning to bring a lineup similar to BMW's M and M-B's AMG, so that should help them out.

I believe the last C&D test of luxury cars, the 7-series was near last and M-B was near the end while the LS was #2 and the A8L was #1. I'm gona see if i can find it @ C&D's website....
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7359&page_number=7

Well I can't find the more current one but one test in 03 where the Lexus LS was #1 But I know in the more recent one it was #2 behind the A8L. But of course with luxury cars its all about the name, and it will take time for Lexus to make a better name for themselves, but I think it'll happen.

 

[Lights_Out]

Damn, someone got called out . BMW's talking smack, hehe.

Ahh, typical of them. Notice how they didn't even mention Audi either?

Well, lexus is moving up and so is Cadillac and both are doing very well sales wise. BMW better wisen up and not take either lightly.

 

[adr]

it's not about selling a good car.
It's about selling "the right car" to the market.

 

[hobie237]

I agree with BMW. If I wanted a premium luxury car, I wouldn't buy a Lexus or Acura. Lexus and Acura are low end luxury cars.

even if they are just as nice and just as well-performing, they do not have the name recognition, and they have a low-end stigma attached that will take years to remove. furthermore, BMW has years of development and refinement put into each and every one of their cars, that lexus and acura can only build up with time

 

[divinewisdom]

heres what lexus chief engineer said about the GS to the 5 series:

“We did not set out to build a better 5 Series,” said chief engineer Shigetoshi Miyoshi. “Our goal was to create something different, and in its difference, something superior in overall performance.”

 

[hobie237]

but did they succeed in building something better? i dont think so, but hey, thats my opinion.

 

[dodolaje]

hm... sound like VW talk bad about hybrid when they themselve doesnt have any hybrid car they onli have diesel.

whats with the german. are they really losing badly? i know they cant win japanese in numbers. and their quality also worst than the american cars. so now what can they do? talk bad about other companies? damn typical NATO <-- no action talk only. Lexus eventhough they dont sell it in japan or asia but the toyota counterpart or the lexus cars that still under toyota brand still sell more than BMW or MB because they have price advantage. yeah 3 series is the onli thing they can boast. the german are lucky because they have brand name. the japanese slowly catchin up. the american too they improve the quality they have price advantage all the american need to do is just throw in more new technology.

 

[vueboy5]

to my knowledge i dont think germans really have a quality issue, it's just that anal people who buy a bmw or mercedes complain about the simplest things, not that they shouldnt when their forking over a huge some of money but when talking about quality, im talking about the car's structure keeping in tact, all the things that actually count to the point where you don't have to worry if your car is going to start or not. I might be completly wrong but i feel the germans are superior in the luxury segment and arre going to stay that way mainly because they are niche companies and all they focus on is luxury whereas toyota(lexus) has more areas in which they have to keep in mind