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Ok Im a 100% Honda Newb, I know search search search, and believe me I have, but I have to make sure the combo I got here is even possible to work correctly. Anyhow I bought the car 96 Civic EX advertised with B16 swap runs rough. I looked at the car runs rough wasn't close.. barely ran at all, anyhow after putting the plug wires on correctly it fixed about 70% of the problems. Now its got this wont run at partial throttle at all super jumpy, shudders badly unless at WOT, then it runs strong. Sitting at idle when it gets close to set at 700 RPMish, it starts the typical Honda jumping idle 500 RPM to 1500 RPM back and forth rather quickly. Here is what I have found or believe I have....

B16A (im figuring B16A2 because it only has one 02 sensor before the cat (none on the upper manifold), there is another after the cat but I believe thats from the car not the swap)

B18C1 head marked P71-1 ( from what ive read this should up my CR to approx. 10.4:1, this sort of crushes my turbo ideas)

5 speed tranny marked S80-3001010 ( previous owner said he searched the vin and it comes from a Integra)

and last but not least the ECU Marked P2P (believe this to be the cars original ECU OBD2 when I pulled it out the top cover was missing so I don't know who's been in it or for what)

The previous owner said the car always ran like it needed a "tune" since the swap was done and it got progressively worse, he Added a Skunk2 70MM Throttle Body trying to fix the problem and of course no go... so its got that TB on it as well. Ive found the front o2 sensor was not connected and the rear one is hacked into some wires running to the ECU, I reconnected the front o2 sensor with no negative or positive effects. I have none of the original parts to swap back so my questions are, will these parts work? is there a better way? and where do I start?
 

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Good lord that thing sounds f'ed up. who would put a GSR head on a B16 block :confused

but i think this is your problem right here:
silkywilson said:
and last but not least the ECU Marked P2P

The P2P is for a SOHC D-series engine (it was the ECU that was in my 98 ex) and is the correct ECU for your chassis but not the engine.

first off, we need to find out if the engine is OBD1 or OBD2. does the engine code say B16A2? or just B16A? i'm guessing that it's just B16A and that the engine is OBD1 which is why you're having problems because the OBD2 ECU is trying to run the OBD1 engine, seeing as most of your problems seem to be electrically related.

it could also be the case that the head is OBD2 but the block is OBD1 or the other way around.

Ok i want you to get some numbers: on the block look below the engine code (B16A, B16A2) and there should be a number, i think you can use this to find out what year the engine is.

and on the head, look on the exhaust manifold (header) side of the engine and there should be some numbers in circled stamped on there. i think one of those should tell you what year the head is.
 

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Yea I hear you about my Possible nightmare, welcome to honda Swaps the hard way hu? Anyhow here is the info I got...

the block is Marked B16A the numbers under it is 550 6360


The Head is marked in the circles 97 upside down on the first one, 10 upside down on the second one, 8 upside down on the 3rd one, and 6 upside down on the 4th one I personally don't understand this date code..


this is how I found my ECU behind the kick panel


and how my harness looks



I was thinking of getting an OBD1 ECU and a changeover harness from rywire but im not sure if this is an OBD2 head.... Can you see why being a Newb im confused? I expect the B18C1 head was used to raise compression for a NA motor.. but thats an assumption as I only read it some where that the combo would raise compression to 10.4:1..

P.S. I hope photo linking isn't a problem on these forums as I believe they help ALOT when describing problems like this.

Oh And I forgot to mention the car runs super rich slight white gas smelling smoke.. almost burn your eyes rich.
 

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silkywilson said:
Yea I hear you about my Possible nightmare, welcome to honda Swaps the hard way hu? Anyhow here is the info I got...

the block is Marked B16A the numbers under it is 550 6360


The Head is marked in the circles 97 upside down on the first one, 10 upside down on the second one, 8 upside down on the 3rd one, and 6 upside down on the 4th one I personally don't understand this date code..


this is how I found my ECU behind the kick panel


and how my harness looks



I was thinking of getting an OBD1 ECU and a changeover harness from rywire but im not sure if this is an OBD2 head.... Can you see why being a Newb im confused? I expect the B18C1 head was used to raise compression for a NA motor.. but thats an assumption as I only read it some where that the combo would raise compression to 10.4:1..

P.S. I hope photo linking isn't a problem on these forums as I believe they help ALOT when describing problems like this.

Oh And I forgot to mention the car runs super rich slight white gas smelling smoke.. almost burn your eyes rich.

1. is the first number on the head 97 or 91? that'll tell you the OBD of the head

2. ECU looks fine for a P2P but you may need a completely different ECU depending on the OBD of your engine

3. harness looks pretty messed up with all the crimps and stuff. you'd probly need a new harness but i don't know which one until we find the OBD.

4. white smokes means you're burning coolant. probly blown headgasket/piston rings.

This is gonna cost a LOT to fix. you may want to just part that engine out and buy a whole new clean B-series swap to put in there. Not saying you couldn't fix it but you'll probly need new ECU, harness, maybe converter harness, new rings and/or headgasket if it's smoking white.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Clearly 97, as the one marked next to it is a 1 and the & doesn't even resemble the 7.. so 97 says OBD2 on the head? correct? B16A says OBD1 on the block.. correct? So do I swap a OBD1 dizzy, ECU, harness jumper, and find a new harness? ide rather have the programmability of the OBD1 myself.. As for head gasket, its not that much white smoke, very light smells super rich like Gas and nothing sweet at all like Coolant does.. also im not loosing any coolant.. I just believe its unburnt Gas head gaskets usually smoke alot this is minor like 1/4 what maybe a cold car would look like in the morning. Im not new to cars just to hondas, more used to carbs than TBs, but ive had my share of them as well, just not crazy cross gen swaps with 3 different operating systems involved (head, ECU, and block) I also want to get a compression test run that should show any head gasket or rings problems.
 

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silkywilson said:
Clearly 97, as the one marked next to it is a 1 and the & doesn't even resemble the 7.. so 97 says OBD2 on the head? correct? B16A says OBD1 on the block.. correct? So do I swap a OBD1 dizzy, ECU, harness jumper, and find a new harness? ide rather have the programmability of the OBD1 myself.. As for head gasket, its not that much white smoke, very light smells super rich like Gas and nothing sweet at all like Coolant does.. also im not loosing any coolant.. I just believe its unburnt Gas head gaskets usually smoke alot this is minor like 1/4 what maybe a cold car would look like in the morning. Im not new to cars just to hondas, more used to carbs than TBs, but ive had my share of them as well, just not crazy cross gen swaps with 3 different operating systems involved (head, ECU, and block) I also want to get a compression test run that should show any head gasket or rings problems.

yes the head is OBD2 then if it's a 97. B16A on the block means a JDM B16, which is most likely OBD1 unless it's the SiRII engine.

was there a number beneath the B16A?

You'll need an OBD2 B-series harness (B16A1, 2, 3 or B18c1, c5) B18b/a won't work unless you wanna wire up VTEC. you'll need some plugs from an OBD1 harness too for the shortblock if that's OBD1.

For the ECU you'll need a gsr (B18C1) ECU (p72 i think) or a Civic Si/Del Sol VTEC ECU (B16a1,2,3). i don't think the P2P ECU will work since it's for SOHC.

compression test would to good to see if the rings or headgasket is gone. usually black smoke is burning gas tho, white is burned coolant.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
yes the number under the B16A is 550 6360 that was the first thing I covered in the post above, Now my question is would it be easier to use a OBD1 harness and ECU and just deal with wiring the head and Vtec independently? Also isnt a B16a possibly an OBD0 motor? I mean can we possibly make it more damn complicated?..LOL
 

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Wish I'd have seen this earlier so I could help you. How has it been going over the last couple months? I hope it didn't cost you a bundle to fix, it really wasn't as complicated as you believed. You might have figured out alot of this since then but here goes anyhow:

1. A GSR head is fine on a B16, in addition to raising compression a bit the cams are bigger. BUT...if your head actually says P71 that is quite odd since a GSR code is P72, especially if it is a B18C1. There was the original B17 GSR which was not based on the same casting as the P72 and is essentially a B16 head. NOTE...it is a misconception that OBD version has any significance when choosing a head, it really means nothing. Only the intake manifolds have version-specific stuff on them.

2. B16A could mean it is OBD0 but could also simply mean it's JDM. There is no significant difference between OBD0 and OBD1 blocks. The only difference with OBD2 is the addition of the crank fluctuation sensor onto the oil pump. This sensor is definitely part of your problem: If you have an OBD1-older block your P2P ecu will trip out because there is no sensor. And, even if you have an OBD2 B16 it will still freak because the B-series uses a different sensor with fewer wires. This is compelling reason to convert to OBD1 and leave all these hassles behind.

3. You should consider using a chipped P30, P28, or P72 ecu to run that motor. OBD1 of course, and you should easily find an adapter harness for $75 or so so don't pay more than that. Chipped ecus run w/o secondary O2 sensor, knock sensor, crank sensor, and offer other niceties too.

4. The S80 definitely is an Integra trans but could be from either the LS or the GSR, since it's already installed you will have to figure that out with some math based on rpm & speed to calculate your gearing. You definitely don't want an LS tranny mated to a B16, it will kill your acceleration.

5. You don't need to change the harness, you cannot use an OBD1 harness of any type or any Integra harness of any year. The stock harness with very slight modifications will do fine.

6. A 70mm throttle body is way to large, and I have to wonder if it's even been attempted to port-match it to the intake manifold. Actually I don't think a stock manifold can be ported that far w/o joining the plenum into the idle air passage, which is bad. Just sell that thing and get something around 62-64mm.

I hope you've been able to come up with some solutions with others' help or on your own, if not perhaps this will be useful to you, or if you are still struggling hit me up and I'll get you straight.
 

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The OBD of the engine doesnt matter. You can run OBD1 or OBD2, your choice- you just need a conversion harness and an OBD1 ecu to run OBD1.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ok Basically what ive done so far, went to a P72 chipped ECU, and a OBD1-OBD2 harness jumper, I replaced the engine harness with a stock factory one (the previous owner had severely hacked the one that was in there) It ap[ears I still have to #1 lengthen the o2 sensor from back to front, and #2 swap the connectors on the tranny plug from the old harness, as the factory plug differs from the tranny plug. Ive also put a Skunk2 intake manifold on it due to the GSR having some sort of vale in it that the P72 ecu can no control. its sitting right now with the manifold on t with one bolt (checking for length of wires for sensors mounted on it) I have to lengthen one or 2 sets of wires, mount the manifold, and try it out. only thing im still really questioning is.. is there a diff from OBD1 and OBD2 on the distributer? that should and or could be my only hangup from here on in. Oh as for the head its marked P72-1 there is a pic of the marking in one of my previous posts. I haven't had much time lately to deal with ti so its been sitting I should finish it up this coming weekend.
 

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If youre running OBD1, you can use an OBD2 or OBD1 dizzy. Im running an OBD1 P28 ecu, and all of my parts in the bay (starter, dizzy, alternator, etc) are all OBD2 parts. No problems here.
 

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As long as the distributor plugs into your harness it should run fine, the plugs are different but electrically work the same. Actually the P72 is the correct ecu to run the stock manifold, the chip probably disabled it. The valve you are talking about is actually the secondary intake butterflies. In the stock manifold it effectively changes the length of the intake runners for high or low rpm operation, to increase torque down low and hp up top.
 

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i did a b16a2 obd2 swap into my obd1 civic a while back and had problems with the car running past 4000 rpms when i had the b16a2 obd2 dizzy on it...but then i switch over to the gsr dizzy it worked great... so it might of just been me but i think the obd2 b16a2 dizzy might not work but the gsr obd2 will though...
 

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im kinda in the same boat i have a 1993 civic with a B16 with a gsr tranny starts runs then over heats my distributor and will not start NO spark i replace the distributor and it fires right up
i have NO idea why can someone please help me im lost i know it has a chipped p28 well thats what i was told by the previous owner that is was chipped
 
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