[IHIPrelude94]

What's everyone's experience with the H22 Crower Stage 2s. What type's of gains do you see? Would it be ok to install the stage 2's and valve spring kit with stock valves and internals? I have a 1994 Prelude VTEC, 81,000 miles

~Peace

 

[tourhcky]

this is the setup i am going to use also prelude94 (you can see about my car in my sig) i am in the process of buying everything right now. heres what i have so far....

crower stage 2's (non stock idle lobe)
skunk2 valve springs (retainers are not needed unless revvingh to something like 9k biggest myth ever )
skunk2 cam gears
aem fpr
apexi vafc2
type -s pistons
thinner head gasket

dyno tune

but to answer your question yes, you will just see better gains out of the stage 2s w/ higher compression.

 

[PreludeKing1995]

they will work with stock valvetrain but in my opinion as a honda tech... its HIGHLY recommended to upgrade valvetrain, but you will be able to use the cams on stock valvetrain with little problem

 

[IHIPrelude94]

Well, Crower says that you need the upgraded valvesprings to handle the Stage 2 Cams, so that's a must have.

As for the non-stock idle lobes, I was looking into that. Do you think that the Idle would be much rougher with the bigger lobes? I'm sure that the VTEC engagement would be much smoother versus going from the little Idle lobes to the big ass VTEC lobes.

The website says "15-18 Horsepower", so I assume they mean flywheel horsepower and not at the wheels. With the FPR, VAFC, Cam Gears, and dyno tuning with STOCK pistons, do you thnk I would actually be able to squeeze out 15 WHP? I'm also getting the RS*R Exmag so that should help evacuate the added exhaust gases that the new cams will create. I'm assuming Crower means 15-18 Horsepower on a stock motor with just the cams and valve train upgrade.

I'm assuming that I should also look into upgrading my clutch if I do this considering that I have a stock *gulp* clutch. I plan on keeping this setup through my next 2 years of college. I want to have Golden Eagle build me an H23 Frankenstein motor for some serious N/A Horsepower once I graduate/can afford it... I just want something to hold me over until I can afford the "real" buildup.

~Peace

 

[PreludeKing1995]

as long as the miles on the stock clutch arent too high id say it will be satisfactory for anything under 250whp... and as far as the idle with the cams, going stage 2 ussual will make you idle a little more rough, but nothing too bad, i know a del sol i worked on, he was running a nitrous setup and get a set of nitrous zex cams... his idle was fairly stock, wasnt too bad. and yes, like i said, its highly recommended to upgrade valvetrain, the only reason they say its a must to run the valvetrain upgrade with the stage 2 cams is that the risk of cam/ valvetrain damage is greater with the stock valvetrain (due to a steaper cam profile, more likely to have valve float in higher rpm ranges), and they dont want to be held responsible... but yes, i would upgrade myself... 15-18 hp, yes, as long as you have all the normal boltons (i/h/e) and maybe a few other small mods, seeing 15-18hp to the FLYWHEEL isnt out of reach...

 

[preludedriver99]

Well if anyone has read my all motor thread they'd have some info on crower. I went crower titanium retainers, dual springs, ss steel valves, and stage 2's with stock idle lobe (which I recomend, don't fuck with the sensors. The duration of these is way above stock and my ecu doesn't like it. May be bad fuel pressure but I've got map code, and fuel communication code and knock sensor code. It bogs like hell at 1500 rpm (have done all kinds of cam gear adjustments). Above 2500 rpms it's crazy. May be due to lighter forged pistons and rods and higher compression but at 6300 rpms it's wicked sounding and the pull is crazy. Mind you I've got all kinds of cels so my timing is retarding. Can't even imagine how it will be when the cels get taken care of, just to damn cold in ohio to worry about it, the car just sits.

All I've got to say is my 5 th gen pulled to 140 SO much faster it's crazy and it's untuned With ems I think stage 2's are plenty sufficient. I might sell mine eventually because my new head can accept a cam with a .515 lift. I recomend port and polish work also with these cams at least a stage 2 and get the bowl area done for sure that's where most of your improvements will take place. Basically what I'm trying to say is that my build feels basically as strong as the zex 75 shot did but minus some torque actually a lot but I can go that route too.

Just some experiences to help pursade people to crower. I think the products are awesome it's retards that install the shit wrong. I mean technically you should have your cam journals at least line bored if you're dropping new cams in. That's why peoples cams break because the clearances are all fucked up because they drop the shit in beat on heads!

 

[PreludeKing1995]

did you have a problem with idle jumping really badly? might try doing some fuel stuff to fix it, seems like my freind had to get an adjustable fuel pressure reg. and do some other work on some sensors or something , i forget

 

[PreludeKing1995]

Well if anyone has read my all motor thread they'd have some info on crower. I went crower titanium retainers, dual springs, ss steel valves, and stage 2's with stock idle lobe (which I recomend, don't fuck with the sensors. The duration of these is way above stock and my ecu doesn't like it. May be bad fuel pressure but I've got map code, and fuel communication code and knock sensor code. It bogs like hell at 1500 rpm (have done all kinds of cam gear adjustments). Above 2500 rpms it's crazy. May be due to lighter forged pistons and rods and higher compression but at 6300 rpms it's wicked sounding and the pull is crazy. Mind you I've got all kinds of cels so my timing is retarding. Can't even imagine how it will be when the cels get taken care of, just to damn cold in ohio to worry about it, the car just sits.

All I've got to say is my 5 th gen pulled to 140 SO much faster it's crazy and it's untuned With ems I think stage 2's are plenty sufficient. I might sell mine eventually because my new head can accept a cam with a .515 lift. I recomend port and polish work also with these cams at least a stage 2 and get the bowl area done for sure that's where most of your improvements will take place. Basically what I'm trying to say is that my build feels basically as strong as the zex 75 shot did but minus some torque actually a lot but I can go that route too.

Just some experiences to help pursade people to crower. I think the products are awesome it's retards that install the shit wrong. I mean technically you should have your cam journals at least line bored if you're dropping new cams in. That's why peoples cams break because the clearances are all fucked up because they drop the shit in beat on heads![/QUOTE]
thank you, you have made me smile... your the first person ive heard say that in a long time... its 100% true lol, if your gonna do all of that work, take the time to get your shit fixed right, doesnt cost much either, lazy asses lol

 

[preludedriver99]

did you have a problem with idle jumping really badly? might try doing some fuel stuff to fix it, seems like my freind had to get an adjustable fuel pressure reg. and do some other work on some sensors or something , i forget

I can't claim the cams caused any of this but I spent a good 20 minutes with brian the import tech from crower. He said that they should run on obd2 ecu's but it's not efficient which we already know. He told me I need to increase my lobe center a bit. I really think it's because I don't have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on it yet. I mean extended duration is automatically going to throw things out of wack. I'm wondering if I didn't tear the diaphram the night I blew my motor on the juice. I did do the infamous 20 second spray so the fpr might have let go. I think I'll just buy a new stock fpr and then do the b&m on it. I also think it would be wise of me to buy a datalogging wideband since my O2 is degraded anyways. If you put cams in a obd2 lude and don't have any problems I'd be surprised. Even a 4th gen and I'd be surprised! I wouldn't do just cams, I'd save for the whole nine yards and do it all at once, line boring your journals and everything. It's a lot of money but trust me in the end you'll be like hell ya!

 

[IHIPrelude94]

Well, looks like I'll just leave the stock cams for now then. I'd rather just have the whole thing built at once versus doing it piece meal and half assed. Looks like I have to wait a few years...

I'll just put the money into clutch/flywheel, VAFC, RS*R ExMag, Rota Circuit 8
's and a new amp for my sub... hehe

~Peace

 

[PreludeKing1995]

Yea, id just wait for it myself, hopefully within the next month or 2 ill be geting my build rolling.
Crower Stage 2 Cams
Crower Valvetrain (Springs, retainers, high comp. valves, all that good stuff)
Milled, P&P, Blueprinted head
Crower or Eagle rods
Type S pistons (dont wanna spend 1500 to get my block sleeved)
And hopefully another few grand worth of extras, fuel system, inginition, wheels and tires... koni yellows, springs... other stuff