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Discussion Starter #1
My buddy has a 1994 SOHC VTEC with the D16Z6. He blew the input shaft bearing and is replacing his tranny.

He got a wicked deal on a tranny from a 1997 Civic NON VTEC. He has a turbo installed now and is wondering if the gear ratios are the same, or longer or shorter?

He loves that his 4th is LONG and goes to almost 230 KPH, but what about the DX tranny? Will the gears still be long or is he gonna be shifting sooner now?

Thanks guys.
 

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i know that the DX have the longest gears, i don't know what he is getting. and i know that the LX have the shortest.
how much is a good deal,
i would not buy cause it's a none v-tec, which probably means that the tranny is not even from the car that it is in.
 

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DSB1084 said:
and i know that the LX have the shortest.
No it doesn't.. The LX/DX are the same.. d16y7
 

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DSB1084 said:
i know that the DX have the longest gears,
the longest geared tranny is the HX tranny...d16y5
its geared for fuel economy therefore has the longer gears.

i should know i drive this dog everyday...good thing its got 6psi going to it...heheh

laters!
 

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DSB1084 said:
i know that the DX have the longest gears, i don't know what he is getting. and i know that the LX have the shortest.
how much is a good deal,
i would not buy cause it's a none v-tec, which probably means that the tranny is not even from the car that it is in.
vtec, non-vtec doesn't really have anything to do with the tranny. A d-series tranny is a d-series tranny (however vtec trannies typically have shorter gears). The thing to be concerned with is the gearing. The d16z6 is the 5g EX engine. So I'm assuming that he has the 5g EX tranny as well. I believe that it has the shortest gears. The tranny from the '97 is probably a DX tranny which has the longest gears.

A lot of people recommend using long geared trannies in turbo apps. It allows you to wind out each gear without having to constantly shift. Besides if you have a turbo, you really don't need the gears to be so short.
 

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kommon_sense said:
A lot of people recommend using long geared trannies in turbo apps. It allows you to wind out each gear without having to constantly shift. Besides if you have a turbo, you really don't need the gears to be so short.
That is such a horrible misconception it's not even funny.... shorter gears ALWAYS mean more torque, and taller gears always give you less torque. if he puts the DX tranny on with taller gearing, his car will accelerate slower whether it's turbocharged or not.
Wookie: tell your friend not to do this swap or he will be very sorry.
 

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DX TRANNY

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU SHOULD USE A DX TRANNY ON A TURBO CAR. MY BUDDY HAS A DX TRANNY ON HIS SINGLE CAM TURBO HATCH AND IT PERFORMS CONSIDERABLY BETTER IN THE QUARTER NOW. HIGH 10'S TO LOW 11'S CONSISTANTLY
 

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D16Y8mike said:
That is such a horrible misconception it's not even funny.... shorter gears ALWAYS mean more torque, and taller gears always give you less torque. if he puts the DX tranny on with taller gearing, his car will accelerate slower whether it's turbocharged or not.
Wookie: tell your friend not to do this swap or he will be very sorry.
There is no mis-conception in what I said. We all know that shorter gears allow for more acceleration, but you run out of gear quicker. We also all know that longer gears allow for more top speed and you will stay in the gear longer.

yes, he will lose some acceleration with the longer gears in the dx tranny. But that isn't the point. The point is that the gear is longer, allowing for higher top speed and fewer shifts. Also remember that each time you shift, you loose boost pressure, so you have to wait for the turbo to respool.

Think about. Put 2 civs on the 1/4 mile line. same engine and turbo setup, and same driving skills. One has an EX tranny with short gears while the other has a DX tranny with longer gears. The EX tranny guy will have to shift 3 times (3rd tops out at about 85mph). The DX tranny guy will only shift 2 times (I believe that 3rd tops out at around 100mph). Which one do you think will win?
 

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Re: DX TRANNY

hondapartsman said:
I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU SHOULD USE A DX TRANNY ON A TURBO CAR. MY BUDDY HAS A DX TRANNY ON HIS SINGLE CAM TURBO HATCH AND IT PERFORMS CONSIDERABLY BETTER IN THE QUARTER NOW. HIGH 10'S TO LOW 11'S CONSISTANTLY
Um... First of all, lose the caps. Second of all, you don't have any buddy with a ten second civic running a dx tranny.

Originally posted by kommon_sense
There is no mis-conception in what I said. We all know that shorter gears allow for more acceleration, but you run out of gear quicker. We also all know that longer gears allow for more top speed and you will stay in the gear longer.

yes, he will lose some acceleration with the longer gears in the dx tranny. But that isn't the point. The point is that the gear is longer, allowing for higher top speed and fewer shifts. Also remember that each time you shift, you loose boost pressure, so you have to wait for the turbo to respool.

Think about. Put 2 civs on the 1/4 mile line. same engine and turbo setup, and same driving skills. One has an EX tranny with short gears while the other has a DX tranny with longer gears. The EX tranny guy will have to shift 3 times (3rd tops out at about 85mph). The DX tranny guy will only shift 2 times (I believe that 3rd tops out at around 100mph). Which one do you think will win?
1. Yes, you will stay in gear longer and get to speed slower.
2. You don't have to wait for the turbo to respool. Think of turbo timers, why would you need them if the turbo stopped spinning in the time it takes to shift? (you don't necessarily need a turbo timer, i'm just trying to illustrate the point.)
3. The EX will win. With shorter gears, the EX is always accelerating more quickly. The DX will never catch up. One extra shift, unless the driver really sucks, doesn't add more than half a second. That won't even come close to letting the DX catch up with a car making (at the wheels) about 15% more torque.

Look, unless you've done this and know it somehow defies physics and makes you faster (like hondapartsman and his 10-second friend) don't give this advice. It makes no sense. Being able to stay in gear longer while accelerating more slowly will not make you faster.
 

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Re: Re: DX TRANNY

I'm gonna make this simple.

D16Y8mike said:
1. Yes, you will stay in gear longer and get to speed slower.
Yes, we established this a long time ago. Just remember that you will also get to a higher speed than you would with a shorter gear.


2. You don't have to wait for the turbo to respool. Think of turbo timers, why would you need them if the turbo stopped spinning in the time it takes to shift? (you don't necessarily need a turbo timer, i'm just trying to illustrate the point.)
What does a turbo timer have to do with this. They just keep the engine running to circulate oil through the turbo while the turbo still spins. Yes it is spinning, but is it making any useful boost? No. If it did, you would hear blow off valve as it continued to release it. Think about it.

Most turbos don't start making useful boost until some RPM. This as we all know depends on the turbo size. Anyways, when you shift, the butterfly valve closes, and the BOV vents the boost. You also drop RPM and you will have to deal with turbo lag again.


3. The EX will win. With shorter gears, the EX is always accelerating more quickly. The DX will never catch up. One extra shift, unless the driver really sucks, doesn't add more than half a second. That won't even come close to letting the DX catch up with a car making (at the wheels) about 15% more torque.
Ever ridden beside an automatic? The auto tranny probably only has 4 gears that are all pretty long. Ever notice that they pull on you a little when you shift?

Also, you stated a half a second... You are of course aware that at lets say 85mph, that a half a second is enough time to cover 62 ft. That is what? About 5 car lengths?


Look, unless you've done this and know it somehow defies physics and makes you faster (like hondapartsman and his 10-second friend) don't give this advice. It makes no sense. Being able to stay in gear longer while accelerating more slowly will not make you faster.
I'm sorry I was not aware that you had carried out this experiment and that I was dealing with an expert in the matter. My sincerest apologies :)

Nobody here is arguing gear ratios. As I said, we all know short is good for acceleration and long is good for top end. We are talking about whether or not long gears are a good setup in a turbo. Think about how the turbo works in this setup and not just about gear ratios.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Lemme add this little tidbit to this:

Because of the power from his turbo system, he spins like mad all the way through 1st and 2nd on a hard launch.

He is hoping with the DX tranny, that his 1st and 2nd gears will be longer. We all know this generates a loss in torque, but in his case, it may benefit him.

If he can stop the wheels from spinning so much, and put the power to the ground, his acceleration will surely increase.

Also, does anyone know where I could find info on each tranny's gears? I know torontostreetracing.com has info and all specs on the B18 trannies, but nothing on the D series ones.

Check here:
http://www.torontostreetracing.com/apq/techsection.htm

If someone could find me a D-Series spreadsheet like this one, then my question would be answered.
 

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This may not look as nice as those charts but it should help...
I have it listed by the engine code not what vehicle it's in. (Taken from 96-00 Civic Service manual, manuals only)
D16Y5 D16Y7 D16Y8
1st 3.250 3.250 3.250
2nd 1.782 1.782 1.909
3rd 1.172 1.172 1.250
4th 0.909 0.909 0.909
5th 0.702 0.702 0.702
R 3.153 3.153 3.153
Final 3.722 * 4.250

* 3.722 for hb, 4.058 for coupes and sedans
 

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D16Y8mike said:
This may not look as nice as those charts but it should help...
I have it listed by the engine code not what vehicle it's in. (Taken from 96-00 Civic Service manual, manuals only)
D16Y5 D16Y7 D16Y8
1st 3.250 3.250 3.250
2nd 1.782 1.782 1.909
3rd 1.172 1.172 1.250
4th 0.909 0.909 0.909
5th 0.702 0.702 0.702
R 3.153 3.153 3.153
Final 3.722 * 4.250

* 3.722 for hb, 4.058 for coupes and sedans
can someone explain what the numbers mean? is it the larger the number the shorter the gears or vise versa? and whats the final drive? which gear is that?

thanks!
 

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10 and 11 second single cam

to check out the 10 and 11 second single cam turbo that d16y8mike flamed, check out humbleperformance.com and look for danny's white hatch--- silhouette--- watch the videos, decide for yourself
 

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Wow, you guys are going ape shit.. Everyone knows everything (not trying to flame, but you're each putting each others comments down)...

Have you ever driven a turbocharged Civic? That would help a lot, b/c you probably wouldn't be making a lot of the comments that you are (again, not flaming.. just stating)

The blow off valve vents boost so that it does not cause compressor surge (slamming the throttle shut when you lift the gas, and all the built pressure has nowhere to go except push against the fins on the compressor side of the turbo)

A turbo timer is just a computer.. All it does it let you run the car for a determined period of time while allowing you to lock your doors and take your key with you.. It's the same as you sitting in your car for a minute after you've been driving to let the engine run (to circulate oil instead of shutting it off immediately to let it bake inside the turbo)
 

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Yeah, sometimes I get bored at work. Had some really tedious work to do today, so I got a little carried away.

Anyways to wrap up what I was saying earlier, there are plenty of posts on using the LS tranny in a turbo setup vs. using the b16 or gsr tranny. Search if you are interested in what other have said about it.
 

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KiddEng said:
can someone explain what the numbers mean? is it the larger the number the shorter the gears or vise versa? and whats the final drive? which gear is that?

thanks!
larger numbers are shorter gears. the final drive is just the last gear reduction before you get to the axles, it's part of the differential.
 

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97CIVICoupe said:
A turbo timer is just a computer.. All it does it let you run the car for a determined period of time while allowing you to lock your doors and take your key with you.. It's the same as you sitting in your car for a minute after you've been driving to let the engine run (to circulate oil instead of shutting it off immediately to let it bake inside the turbo)
I only mentioned a turbo timer to illustrate that you don't have to wait for the turbo to respool when you shift.... this being the argument that kommon_sense made.

as for flaming the parts man, sorry alright.... but whether you know someone who's made a fast civic with the taller geared tranny has nothing to do with whether or not it's faster.

Originally posted by kommon_sense
Yeah, sometimes I get bored at work. Had some really tedious work to do today, so I got a little carried away.
I've spent the last month and a half dealing with insurance companies because of accidents in a car I just bought. Sorry if I was outta line man. (But I still say that the shorter tranny's always gonna be faster.)
 

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D16Y8mike said:

I've spent the last month and a half dealing with insurance companies because of accidents in a car I just bought. Sorry if I was outta line man. (But I still say that the shorter tranny's always gonna be faster.)
Same here. Sorry if I crossed the line. No offense taken. I agree in NA, shorter tranny is always faster. With a turbo, racing a set distance, I'm not so sure. Would love to see some numbers on that.
 
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