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Discussion Starter #1
I know the vs and retainers are required....what about the valves?

Is stock ok to run...or to be on the safe side, should crower valves be used?
 

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98Vtec said:
I know the vs and retainers are required....what about the valves?

Is stock ok to run...or to be on the safe side, should crower valves be used?
oem valves are about the strongest you can get. only reason i used ferrea's was because A) my stock valves were all bent B) i got them for 10$ a piece.


btw you do not need to run titanium retainers. they are only there to offer slight weight reduction in valvetrain mass too allow a slightly higher redline without chances of floating a valve. some people have problems with titaniums galling because the two dissimilar metals work against each other. truthfully its a fitament issue but there really is no deffinitive proof.

**edit** as a side note crower actually has steel retainers available now so you have options. obviously they have taken note of the problem.

also take note that if you use thier valve spring/retainer kit with the added installed height you will need to have the rockers grinded to prevent contact with the retainers. the whole basis for the added installed height is to prevent retainer to guide contact. if you use another spring like portflows or rocket motorsports etc you do not need to grind the rocker arms since they are normal install hieght. and personally i wouldnt worry to much about retainer to guide contact with stage 2's because they just dont have the lift it takes. short of floating a valve i dont think you have to worry.

as a testimonial i have portflow springs and stage 2's and do not have my rockers ground. no contact was seen at my last valve adjustment about 4 days ago after a couple thousand miles.

word to the wise. if you do get cams make sure you shop for springs and ask what thier install heights are and what the seat pressure is going to be. most of the rocker pad wearing issues have come from people running excessive seat pressure on the thier valve springs. and stay away from junk 2 springs.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Rick V said:
oem valves are about the strongest you can get. only reason i used ferrea's was because A) my stock valves were all bent B) i got them for 10$ a piece.


btw you do not need to run titanium retainers. they are only there to offer slight weight reduction in valvetrain mass too allow a slightly higher redline without chances of floating a valve. some people have problems with titaniums galling because the two dissimilar metals work against each other. truthfully its a fitament issue but there really is no deffinitive proof.

**edit** as a side note crower actually has steel retainers available now so you have options. obviously they have taken note of the problem.

also take note that if you use thier valve spring/retainer kit with the added installed height you will need to have the rockers grinded to prevent contact with the retainers. the whole basis for the added installed height is to prevent retainer to guide contact. if you use another spring like portflows or rocket motorsports etc you do not need to grind the rocker arms since they are normal install hieght. and personally i wouldnt worry to much about retainer to guide contact with stage 2's because they just dont have the lift it takes. short of floating a valve i dont think you have to worry.

as a testimonial i have portflow springs and stage 2's and do not have my rockers ground. no contact was seen at my last valve adjustment about 4 days ago after a couple thousand miles.

word to the wise. if you do get cams make sure you shop for springs and ask what thier install heights are and what the seat pressure is going to be. most of the rocker pad wearing issues have come from people running excessive seat pressure on the thier valve springs. and stay away from junk 2 springs.

lol, i was hoping you or preludedriver would answer first....

so basically i can sell the valves and retainers and get something like portflow springs. Sweet, this means i will have extra money for the install. The shop that is doing it is also doing a manual tensioner conversion. Dude said once you put springs in there it does a beating on the belt and wears out the auto tensioner. Total install is running me 700 bux. Which isnt too bad considering they gotta take the head off and on.


Hey rick.....how long should my car be down for the install?
 

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98Vtec said:
lol, i was hoping you or preludedriver would answer first....

so basically i can sell the valves and retainers and get something like portflow springs. Sweet, this means i will have extra money for the install. The shop that is doing it is also doing a manual tensioner conversion. Dude said once you put springs in there it does a beating on the belt and wears out the auto tensioner. Total install is running me 700 bux. Which isnt too bad considering they gotta take the head off and on.


Hey rick.....how long should my car be down for the install?
if your valves are all in spec then i would keep them in. no sense is replacing a perfectly good part. as for the retainers.....its up to you really. do you feel you need the extra 2 or 3 hundred rpm your going to safely get out of them? for me i wieghed the facts and came up with this...they potentially could gall, snap and drop a valve ruining my motor. granted they might not but im not rich by any means its not a level of acceptability im willing to deal with for a couple rpm that i dont really need.

the portflow springs have worked great for me so far and i redline alot, actually too much...the seat pressure is good on them and to date i have no rocker pad issues. i would suggest them. and besides they are pretty cheap for a set. rockets are also pretty good.

the manual tensioner conversion is a smart one. the added pressure it takes to compress the "better" springs does weigh heavily on the timing belt. it also has a lot to do with the profile of the cam but the stage 2's arent exactly wild. besides the autotensioners are junk on stock cars, let alone ones with cams.

since you may have some extra cash laying around depending on what you do i would suggest getting some other things you can replace while you are in there. like VALVE SEALS....do them now while the head is off and the valvetrain is disassembled cause thats the only way you can do them. and cam seals...especially the ones on the timing belt side.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Rick V said:
if your valves are all in spec then i would keep them in. no sense is replacing a perfectly good part. as for the retainers.....its up to you really. do you feel you need the extra 2 or 3 hundred rpm your going to safely get out of them? for me i wieghed the facts and came up with this...they potentially could gall, snap and drop a valve ruining my motor. granted they might not but im not rich by any means its not a level of acceptability im willing to deal with for a couple rpm that i dont really need.

the portflow springs have worked great for me so far and i redline alot, actually too much...the seat pressure is good on them and to date i have no rocker pad issues. i would suggest them. and besides they are pretty cheap for a set. rockets are also pretty good.

the manual tensioner conversion is a smart one. the added pressure it takes to compress the "better" springs does weigh heavily on the timing belt. it also has a lot to do with the profile of the cam but the stage 2's arent exactly wild. besides the autotensioners are junk on stock cars, let alone ones with cams.

since you may have some extra cash laying around depending on what you do i would suggest getting some other things you can replace while you are in there. like VALVE SEALS....do them now while the head is off and the valvetrain is disassembled cause thats the only way you can do them. and cam seals...especially the ones on the timing belt side.
what kind of valve seals do you recommend? And how much do they normally run....i never even thought about these....what about cam seals? I know some have used the golden eagle seals.

Yeah i am really glad the dude talked to me about the manual conversion. He told me a guy did the same thing i did just with skunk2 stuff. He had his auto replaced 3 times in one year. NOt to mention an auto isnt exactly cheap.

Thats good new with the portflows....im gonna loook into them.

The Cam gears that are comin with these are 3 bolt AEM's......that really scares me so im gonna sell them and get 5 bolt. Horrors of a gear slipping is not something i want to think about. Been looking at the STR gears.
 

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ive never heard of any problems w/ skunk2 gears and you can pick them up on ebay for 170 shipped brand spankin new
 
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by the way 98vtec, im glad you're posting this stuff because im getting ready to do just about the exact same thing as you are.. i pm'd rick w/ a couple more questions
 

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Discussion Starter #8
tourhcky said:
by the way 98vtec, im glad you're posting this stuff because im getting ready to do just about the exact same thing as you are.. i pm'd rick w/ a couple more questions
lol, me you and preludedriver are gonna make him pass out :giggle
 

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98Vtec said:
what kind of valve seals do you recommend? And how much do they normally run....i never even thought about these....what about cam seals? I know some have used the golden eagle seals.

QUOTE]

OEM, seriously. i cant remember how much the valve seals are but they arent expensive. just remember that the intake and exhaust seals are two totally different things and you cannot mix them up. check hondaautomotiveparts.com for the price. the golden eagle cam seal is deffinatly better then the oem rubber thing but thats only 1 of the 4 cam seals. the other 3 are going to have to be oem. technically the one on the distributor side of the exhaust cam is only an o ring but its considered a cam seal. none the less get the two for the cam gear side, the golden eagle for the dizzy side of the intake cam and the o ring for the dizzy side of the exhaust cam. it is in my opinion CRUCIAL that you at least get the two oem ones for the cam gear side. they are crushed shut by the cam cap and once you break torque on that cap your likelyhood of getting an oil leak there just shot through the roof.

even if you only have 40k on your car or whatever its seriously just best to get it done while this is all going on and save yourself in the long run.

and good move on ditching the 3 bolt gears.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
ok i just looked up the portflow springs and they are 200 from portflow. They also have the OEM valve stem seals. 24 bux per set of 16.

Damn this is turning out to be much cheaper than i thought it was gonna be. :hug :w00t
 

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correct me if im wrong, but isnt another big reason most people get titanium retainers is for the loss in weight which also allows you to pick up revs quicker, not much, but some? might not matter to some people, but for me, when i got my light flywheel having those rpms climb faster than i ever had them climb before was very fun... so when i do my build im going as light weight as i possibly can...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
PreludeKing1995 said:
correct me if im wrong, but isnt another big reason most people get titanium retainers is for the loss in weight which also allows you to pick up revs quicker, not much, but some? might not matter to some people, but for me, when i got my light flywheel having those rpms climb faster than i ever had them climb before was very fun... so when i do my build im going as light weight as i possibly can...

have fun driving around town with that :eek

well maybe you will.......i just like the way a stock car drives.....tis why i didnt get a flywheel when i got my ACT. I drove a friend of mines with a lightweight and i hated it so much.
 

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98Vtec said:
have fun driving around town with that :eek

well maybe you will.......i just like the way a stock car drives.....tis why i didnt get a flywheel when i got my ACT. I drove a friend of mines with a lightweight and i hated it so much.
lol its all personal taste i guess, some like, some dont, it takes some time to get used to it really, but for me, i like seeing my tach jump from 1k to 7k in the blink of an eye, and i can only imagine how itll be with my new setup... i almost cant stand to wait, but gotta wait i guess... ive always been into the high revving high rpm quick small 4 bangers more than i have the big slow torque monster low redline v8's... again, my personalt taste, but id rather have an f1 style engine over a torquey high hp big block monster...
 

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98Vtec said:
ok i just looked up the portflow springs and they are 200 from portflow. They also have the OEM valve stem seals. 24 bux per set of 16.

Damn this is turning out to be much cheaper than i thought it was gonna be. :hug :w00t
Bro you better put a zipper on your mouth before you end up kicking yourself in the sac. It will NOT be cheap you should know that by now from reading my all motor thread. My suggestion lose the oem valves, how many miles is on your car? $270 bucks gets you crower stainless steel valves, didn't you say you want my motor lol! I had to have my rockers grinded on also. No biggy. You seriously need to talk to Frank at pocketrockets racing. He takes care of everything. He will gring your rockers for you install everything, make sure your seat pressures and installed height is ready. You aren't going to take that head off and not get port and bowl work done are you? His porting and polishing is phenominal. He replaces your valve guides with ferrea bronze guides and takes care of new seals also. I say spend the dough bro!

***edit*** By the way I spent a lot of time on the phone with him and discussed the whole build with him. You can tell he knows what he's talking about but he is a little weird or different, just his personality I think. I mean UPS dropped my head and I didn't have to do anything and he got me a new head, did the work again and I pocketed 600 bucks! Just my two cents
 

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PreludeKing1995 said:
correct me if im wrong, but isnt another big reason most people get titanium retainers is for the loss in weight which also allows you to pick up revs quicker, not much, but some? might not matter to some people, but for me, when i got my light flywheel having those rpms climb faster than i ever had them climb before was very fun... so when i do my build im going as light weight as i possibly can...
Forged pistons and rods will be your major weight saver. I'd get titanium retainers, well I mean I got titanium retainers. Couldn't see half assing my build so I stuck with all crower components, you'd think having all crower would benefit your car well because they're supposed to work together.
 

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98Vtec said:
have fun driving around town with that :eek

well maybe you will.......i just like the way a stock car drives.....tis why i didnt get a flywheel when i got my ACT. I drove a friend of mines with a lightweight and i hated it so much.
Damn peeps get this thread rollin, I personally bought the exedy race package with the streetlite flywheel. It isn't bad at all driving around town. Doesn't even take getting used to. The stock will get you moving better but that's not what I built my car for. It's good on the twisties where a lude belongs. Rev matching is easier I think. Just get your stock flywheel serviced and take a few lbs off if you don't want to go lightweight. A machine shop shouldn't charge you more than 50 bucks to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
and i will eventually have your setup. When i get out of college... and then law school.
i dont have the time for my car to be down as long as it would be.
 

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98Vtec said:
and i will eventually have your setup. When i get out of college... and then law school.
i dont have the time for my car to be down as long as it would be.
Definitly helps having your own house and garage but law schools where it's at. My cousin just grad and started out at 65,000 bucks a year. What do you want to do with your setup actually. List it and we will pick apart the weak links and support the good choices. I'll help you out with one EMS don't even bother building a motor like mine on obd2 because I can already tell you it won't like it. The power is incrediable don't get me wrong but I can just imagine when I can change my ignition tables and have all the feautres aem ems has!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
preludedriver99 said:
Definitly helps having your own house and garage but law schools where it's at. My cousin just grad and started out at 65,000 bucks a year. What do you want to do with your setup actually. List it and we will pick apart the weak links and support the good choices. I'll help you out with one EMS don't even bother building a motor like mine on obd2 because I can already tell you it won't like it. The power is incrediable don't get me wrong but I can just imagine when I can change my ignition tables and have all the feautres aem ems has!
yeah i am gonna run a JDM H22 and euro R tranny. i cant wait to get outta law school $$$$
 
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