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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ZEX has a kit that's minimum hp is 50. Now, say you have a 4 cyl and want a 40 hp shot; would you need jets for 10 hp to put to each port, or 40 hp jets. Also, could you use a wet system jetted to your target hp (use a y adapter and jet there) and attach the output of the y adapter to a shower distribution block, then run lines from the block to each intake runner. This would divide the, say, 40 shot into four (i know this is confusing, so just ask if you need any clarification)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
actually, now that I've thought about it, I think a 40 shot to each cylinder would be appropriate. Since when you have a single nozzle wet system, it's spraying all the mixture, and only getting taken in by one port at a time, right? You might would have to jet down a bit to compensate for the fact that 100% of the mix will be entering the cylinder, where as with a single nozzle system, some might be left in the IM. The best way to figure this out would probably be to consult a few nitrous companies for a verification, or have a very well built engine, go safe with the timing retardation, and try some real-world testing. Since I don't have a well built engine, I'll try to get something out of one of the nitrous companies.
 

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why even waste your money on anything under a 50 shot? and why do direct port for anything under 100? You are spending time and money and effort for something silly
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
well, my thought was that if it was possible for a small shot, I could go ahead a plumb for direct port and shoot small, then get bigger if I could get a manual tranny swap. I would rather have a manual from the factory, but they're not exactly plentiful around here, so I have a lot of looking to do. (most of this thread was theoretical anyway, just so I can learn more about nitrous and its operations)
 

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Reguardless of the shot size - direct port will be the most reliable setup you can install. FYI they do make smaller jets down to I believe 3-4 hp. Pretty sure they are called sapphire jets.
HENRY
 

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older thread dude, but good point, they do make smaller jets

but there is no point. 3-4hp per cylinder, around 10 overall, and that could have been achieved with boltons and a tune and be far more reliable and last as long as the motor, no need to keep a bottle filled :D
 

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Reguardless of the shot size - direct port will be the most reliable setup you can install. FYI they do make smaller jets down to I believe 3-4 hp. Pretty sure they are called sapphire jets.
HENRY

you're not going to gain anything from going direct port over a wet kit if you're under 50-100 really anyway..and its more work for nothing..reliability wise you're not gaining anything honestly with a small shot
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Some people (ie. me) don't look at it as work, more of a fun learning experience that will give a result to be proud of. (although I'll probably be pulling my hair out by the end of the project, lol)

I can get the right size jets for a 50 shot DP by the way, ebay stores sell NX jets from the smallest you could want to the biggest you could ever need.

If I get an extra IM with the engine I'm gonna buy, I might go ahead and get it setup for a DP shot.

Off topic here, but right now I have a dry shot setup on my car. Will the car's computer be able to adjust the fuel injection to compensate for the n2o, or should I just go with a wet system? Don't want to go wet on this if I don't need to, afraid the 50 shot on it won't atomize the fuel good enough to get it all the way to the cylinder; about 15-20" from the nozzle to the intake valve.
 

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Some people (ie. me) don't look at it as work, more of a fun learning experience that will give a result to be proud of. (although I'll probably be pulling my hair out by the end of the project, lol)

I can get the right size jets for a 50 shot DP by the way, ebay stores sell NX jets from the smallest you could want to the biggest you could ever need.

If I get an extra IM with the engine I'm gonna buy, I might go ahead and get it setup for a DP shot.

Off topic here, but right now I have a dry shot setup on my car. Will the car's computer be able to adjust the fuel injection to compensate for the n2o, or should I just go with a wet system? Don't want to go wet on this if I don't need to, afraid the 50 shot on it won't atomize the fuel good enough to get it all the way to the cylinder; about 15-20" from the nozzle to the intake valve.
i dont mind "work"..but honestly..dp for your use is overkill and more trouble then its worth..

as far as your last question. I've run a dry system for years without any problems. a properly installed dry system will do you jsut fine for a 50 shot and be perfectly safe. Now this next part isn't jsut directed at you..just a pet peeve of mine...this whole thing about fuel atomization that people talk about is a really big mis-nomer, but somebody read it somewhere and NOS mentions it on their website so everyone thinks that all wet systems have the problem...you dont run into fuel atomization problems until you get into very large shots..You wont see any fuel atomization problems below the 100-125 range..which at that point you should be going DP anyway. And with the modern nozzles that the systems have fuel atomization is really becoming a thing of the past even on large kits. What you do get with non-DP systems is uneven distribution between cyclinders..And thats just because of the way the honda intake manifold is designed. Again, you wont have any adverse effects in the short run..in the long run, you will lose the rings on cylinders 2 and 4 before 1 and 3...When I talk long run I'm talking several years with a properly installed and tuned kit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I was just worried about the fact that there wouldn't be much n2o coming out to atomize the fuel and carry it all the way to the cylinder, but if you say it's good, I'll go with it. I was just worried about whether the MAP could read it and adjust the fuel properly. With the 50 shot, what do I need to do here? Some people say there's no need to retard timing for the first 50 shot, others say there is. Also, will I need a colder plug? I think I should be alright, and just check the plugs to be sure after the first hit. I don't plan on using it much, mostly looks with once in a while use.
 

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I was just worried about the fact that there wouldn't be much n2o coming out to atomize the fuel and carry it all the way to the cylinder, but if you say it's good, I'll go with it. I was just worried about whether the MAP could read it and adjust the fuel properly. With the 50 shot, what do I need to do here? Some people say there's no need to retard timing for the first 50 shot, others say there is. Also, will I need a colder plug? I think I should be alright, and just check the plugs to be sure after the first hit. I don't plan on using it much, mostly looks with once in a while use.
Heres what I did with my car when I had my 50 shot dry...I went 2 heat ranges colder on the plugs...and i went 2 degrees of timing..the plugs are a must..timing..you can get away with not retarding the timing that far if you run good gas and the ambient temps arnt realy high...if you live in the southwest and its summer..i would suggest retarding the timing.
 

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...

i dont mind "work"..but honestly..dp for your use is overkill and more trouble then its worth..

as far as your last question. I've run a dry system for years without any problems. a properly installed dry system will do you jsut fine for a 50 shot and be perfectly safe. Now this next part isn't jsut directed at you..just a pet peeve of mine...this whole thing about fuel atomization that people talk about is a really big mis-nomer, but somebody read it somewhere and NOS mentions it on their website so everyone thinks that all wet systems have the problem...you dont run into fuel atomization problems until you get into very large shots..You wont see any fuel atomization problems below the 100-125 range..which at that point you should be going DP anyway. And with the modern nozzles that the systems have fuel atomization is really becoming a thing of the past even on large kits. What you do get with non-DP systems is uneven distribution between cyclinders..And thats just because of the way the honda intake manifold is designed. Again, you wont have any adverse effects in the short run..in the long run, you will lose the rings on cylinders 2 and 4 before 1 and 3...When I talk long run I'm talking several years with a properly installed and tuned kit.
It's not a MISNOMER. It's called -WALL WETTING- and it is CAUSED BY THE FUEL NOT BEING ATOMIZED OR CARRIED PROPERLY WITH THE REST OF THE INTAKE CHARGE. This is a HUGE issue with single point nitrous injection and MODERN DAY MULTIPORT INTAKE MANIFOLDS - they are called DRY MANIFOLDS for a reason - they DO NOT contain any sort of tumbling or turns that keep the fuel and air mixed like your older style WET intake manifolds carburated engines used. Running a WET FOGGER kit on the DRY MANIFOLD is a GREAT WAY to show how the SHORT TURN into number 4 cylinder on any of the HONDA single plane manifolds cause that cylinder to RUN LEAN. Dual plane manifolds have places for the fuel to stall out and puddle because of tight turns. A larger 'SHOT' means more fuel in the intake charge that AMPLIFIES this issue:fear. This creates a situation that nitrous BACKFIRE LOVES - a HOT intake valve and a puddle of fuel with a oxidizer present to catalyze everything.:bomb

Dry kits are SAFER than a wet fogger - but they too suffer from distribution issues. It's hard to make sure that each cylinder is being fed THE SAME AMOUNT of nitrous when each cylinder has to fight for a unevenly dispersed pattern of spray. Some will ingest more spray than others - so the potential for running lean:eek2 on a individual cylinder basis is there. The only way to PROPERLY DISTRIBUTE THE CHARGE IS BY INJECTING IT INTO EACH RUNNER INDIVIDUALLY.

The only SAFE thing to do is NOT MOD YOUR MOTOR. But where is the fun in that:eek:? The only thing I can say is that you HAVE BEEN WARNED. You can listen to people that think WET KITS ARE AWESOME and others that say DRY kits RULE - but in the end - the RELIABILITY AND LONGEVITY GOES TO the DIRECT PORT KIT.
--THAT CAN'T BE ARGUED WITH.--

Over kill or more trouble than it's worth? I would rather NOT HAVE TO REPLACE MY MOTOR and have spent another few hours installing my spray:w00tz. My 2 cents.
HENRY
 

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I was just worried about the fact that there wouldn't be much n2o coming out to atomize the fuel and carry it all the way to the cylinder, but if you say it's good, I'll go with it. I was just worried about whether the MAP could read it and adjust the fuel properly. With the 50 shot, what do I need to do here? Some people say there's no need to retard timing for the first 50 shot, others say there is. Also, will I need a colder plug? I think I should be alright, and just check the plugs to be sure after the first hit. I don't plan on using it much, mostly looks with once in a while use.
There isn't anything much more(in nitrous anyway) intimidating than popping the hood and having a DP kit staring back at you. It shows your serious. It also means that your not just the average spray junkie that slapped down 400 bucks.:number1
HENRY
 

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It's not a MISNOMER. It's called -WALL WETTING- and it is CAUSED BY THE FUEL NOT BEING ATOMIZED OR CARRIED PROPERLY WITH THE REST OF THE INTAKE CHARGE. This is a HUGE issue with single point nitrous injection and MODERN DAY MULTIPORT INTAKE MANIFOLDS - they are called DRY MANIFOLDS for a reason - they DO NOT contain any sort of tumbling or turns that keep the fuel and air mixed like your older style WET intake manifolds carburated engines used. Running a WET FOGGER kit on the DRY MANIFOLD is a GREAT WAY to show how the SHORT TURN into number 4 cylinder on any of the HONDA single plane manifolds cause that cylinder to RUN LEAN. Dual plane manifolds have places for the fuel to stall out and puddle because of tight turns. A larger 'SHOT' means more fuel in the intake charge that AMPLIFIES this issue:fear. This creates a situation that nitrous BACKFIRE LOVES - a HOT intake valve and a puddle of fuel with a oxidizer present to catalyze everything.:bomb

Dry kits are SAFER than a wet fogger - but they too suffer from distribution issues. It's hard to make sure that each cylinder is being fed THE SAME AMOUNT of nitrous when each cylinder has to fight for a unevenly dispersed pattern of spray. Some will ingest more spray than others - so the potential for running lean:eek2 on a individual cylinder basis is there. The only way to PROPERLY DISTRIBUTE THE CHARGE IS BY INJECTING IT INTO EACH RUNNER INDIVIDUALLY.

The only SAFE thing to do is NOT MOD YOUR MOTOR. But where is the fun in that:eek:? The only thing I can say is that you HAVE BEEN WARNED. You can listen to people that think WET KITS ARE AWESOME and others that say DRY kits RULE - but in the end - the RELIABILITY AND LONGEVITY GOES TO the DIRECT PORT KIT.
--THAT CAN'T BE ARGUED WITH.--

Over kill or more trouble than it's worth? I would rather NOT HAVE TO REPLACE MY MOTOR and have spent another few hours installing my spray:w00tz. My 2 cents.
HENRY
you're not going to have a problem under 100 shot..you arnt really dumping enough fuel for it to be an issue..the aproblems you're talking about are with large shots and older style nozzles. I do agree with the uneven distribution..which is why I mentioned it...but properly setup you wont have a problem...if wet kits are as bad as you say..why is it that so many people use wet kits very successfully? Why do full blown race cars use wet kits? I agree a dp kit is safer long term and with large shots. But with small shots liek we are dealing with here the reliablility factor of a wet or even a dry kit is good. You sound liek the people who only liek wet or dp kits and hate dry kits because they "blow motors"...the only thing that blows the motor is bad tuning and bad driving. dry ktis are safe if installed and ued properly...wet kits are safe if installed and used properly..dp kits are safe if installed and used properly. but its obvious you only read the first 2 sentences of my last post anyway so I'm wasting my breath because your second paragraph restated what I had already said
 

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and yes..dp is over kill for a freakin 50 shot..they may visually be impressd by your dp setup...but when they see you running a 15 sec pass with your single cam with a 50 shot dp kit they are going to realize that you arnt for real
 
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