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Discussion Starter #1
OK. We have all heard of using 3M Window Weld in our engine mounts, and Energy Suspensions motor mount inserts. You have probably also heard about how hard those products are and that they are not daily driver friendly and some people even remove them because they say the vibration and noise just isn't worth it.

So I did a little homework to find out what grade of urethane would be appropriate. Here is a hardness scale :



Based on this scale, the ES inserts are in the ballpark of 85-90A. On a sidenote, a bowling ball is about 100A.

So based on the some of the info I found on the net (the nissan guys have done a lot of homework on this), 60A seemed to be the best bet. I figured that it would stop movement without rattling my teeth out.

Thanks again to the nissan guys, I found that Mcmaster-carr ( www.mcmaster-carr.com ) carries urethane casting compound in various hardnesses. They are as follows :

Flexible Urethane, Shore 60A - 8644K24
Flexible Urethane, Shore 80A - 8644K11
Flexible Urethane, Shore 94A - 8644K18

There are other places that carry urethane casting compound such as www.smooth-on.com , but when I called their tech support, they were unsure if it could deal with the temps that it might see in the engine bay. So I went with mcmaster-carr since the nissan folks had been successful with it.

To start, I couldn't deal with the downtime of removing my mounts and filling them and I also wanted to make sure that I started with a good mount instead of patching a broken one, so I picked up a set of new mounts, sides and rear. My car has > 120k, so it was time anyways. Based on what I've read from others on the ES inserts, I decided to just fill the 2 side mounts and not touch the rear mount.

Here are the 2 new mounts :


The first thing that you have to do is tape up the mounts to prevent the urethane from leaking out. I used duct tape. Why duct tape? Because it is waterproof, so it should minimize any leakage. The urethane is a little thicker than syrup, but can still ooze out if you do a poor job taping them up, and then you have a mess on your hands. I suggest that you place them in a disposable *leakproof* container. The mom/wife/girlfriend/whoever won't like it if you spill this stuff.


Here is the 60A urethane. It is like epoxy and comes in 2 parts. It comes in exactly the right ratio, so just dump the little container into the big container and mix well for at least 2 minutes. It even comes with a mixing stick. Once you join these 2 liquids, there is no going back. This stuff sets in about 15 minutes, so that is how long you have to work with it before it gels up. This is why you tape the mounts first.


Here are the mounts after I have poured the urethane into them. These 2 mounts only required roughly *HALF* of the urethane, so you could split the cost with a buddy and do them for 2 cars at once.


Now we wait... How long? About 48hrs. This stuff has to cure for 2 days and DO NOT try to rush it. Also temp needs to be roughly 70deg. It was winter time, so I just turned up the heat. You will notice that in less than 8hrs, the urethane will be hard to the touch, but you still have to let it cure the entire 48hrs.

We have waited our 48hrs, and this is what they look like once the tape has been removed.


Based on the info that I read on how to properly cure polyurethane, another 4hrs at 150deg will improve their strength and durability. Well... I found out that my oven only goes down to 170F ([email protected] new-fangled oven with digital controls). So I broke out the cast iron, popped it into the oven @ 170 and got the pots hot. That is a deep frying pan and its lid. Once hot, pulled them out of the oven, placed a towel in the bottom of the pan and set the mounts inside, then put the lid back on. The pots are just sitting on top of the stove now, the burner is *NOT* on. I then left and came back sometime that afternoon. Of course this rig wasn't hot for 4hrs, but it was better than nothing. Also follow directions and temperatures closely. This stuff can only handle 180F. Remember urethane is just a form of rubber and it can still melt.


Now, I'm all set and ready to go. At least that is what I thought. When I go to install the first mount, I notice that there is a pad welded onto the frame where the mount goes... Looks like it is basically like a bumpstop for the mount. Didn't know that it was there and my home-made mounts won't clear it. So I break out the die grinder w/wire-wheel attachment and start grinding on my newly made mounts. I removed about 1/4-3/8" of the polyurethane off the top of the mount. This pic shows where it was removed. You could avoid this step if you place a piece of wood or something in the mount after you tape, but before you pour the urethane.


Here is my lower driver's side mount... It has seen better days, but it does explain the *thunk* whenever I made a hard turn.



So... Initial impressions... The interior does buzz and I do get some vibration at idle. I have noticed that it is only when my idle dips below about 600 or so that there is any noticeable vibration, but when it does, it is annoying. With the radio at a moderate listening level, you can't even hear the buzzing (if there is any). Once the engine is past 1000rpm or so, there is no noticeable buzzing or anything. While driving I do notice some more feedback in the gas pedal from the engine, but I like feedback from the car.

As for handling... I love it! Car handles beautifully, goes wherever I point it. The sloppiness that I was feeling is gone. Launching is also better. I don't drag launch or anything like that, but even an aggressive take-off feels better.

For now I can live with the occassional buzz and vibration. If it starts to bother me, then I plan to pull the mounts and drill a few holes into the urethane to help make them a little more pliable.

As for what prompted me to do this, I took the car to the dyno a few weeks back for a baseline run and watched the engine as the guy at the shop reved the motor. It jiggled back and forth like it was doing the harlem shake... it was ridiculous...

Why didn't I buy aftermarket mounts? Well, they are either overpriced, don't tell you how hard they are, or both...

Anyways, this is a relatively simple and inexpensive mod. It will require some mechanical ability to actually install them. Installation time should be roughly 2hrs.

You can find an install howto here :
http://www.hazone.com/hmtrmount.htm
 

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excellent research, as for the end-product:

one word

awesome.

just 1 question: where did you purchase the new mounts and if you dont mind me asking how much were they?
 

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also, why didn't you use the fda flexible urethane-8644K34?

whoops, just looked at the chart some more and noticed it had a much higher shrinkage percentage.... that 5/100 of an in as opposed to 5/1,000,000 that would be quite a difference :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Got the mounts from www.slhondaparts.com for about $32 each and as for the urethane you hit the nail on the head. I figured shrinkage could be an issue in the winter months.

It is important to keep in mind that these are not actually engine mounts. Honda did not design them to support the engine. They are actually used to limit how far the engine can actually move. So since this mod did quite a bit to help me, it also means that I most likely need to replace my other mounts as they are not doing their job very well. However my car has 125k miles, so it is probably about time anyways.
 

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well, i need to replace my mounts, and looking to do it in the next couple of weeks (have to make a trip back home for the weekend now), seeing as i've been told by a shop that they were bad, but also the fact my transmission is damaged and im hoping this may cure some of the problems im haveing with it, and im hating the wheel hop i have(even in snowy conditions. i'm also pushing 125K as well. i was doing a search before i posted(why cant everyone do that?) and you happened to answer most all of my questions before i even asked them. so thank you

btw: did you get the mounts off of their website? if so what section did you find them under? im having trouble locating them.
 

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Looks pretty nice! I just did pretty close to the same in my del sol about a week ago...i used 3M Window weld tho, i think it helped quite a bit, inside vibrates a little at idle thats about it. Yours turned out a little better looking than mine tho :p
 

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kommon_sense said:
Mine only vibrate when my idle drops real low like < 500rpm. I've been really happy with them thus far...
Yeah thats the only time its very bad in my car too i guess...its not bad at all when it idles higher(8-900)
 

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Did you experience any melting? My Accord is booted the guy that tuned my car did this and it melted, but I dont know what he used and he rushed it cuz I needed my car.
 

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A friend of mine did this on his Probe GT, it worked awesome. he actually noticed better 60 foot times, like 1-2 tenths consistenly.
 

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Accord_boy619 said:
Did you experience any melting? My Accord is booted the guy that tuned my car did this and it melted, but I dont know what he used and he rushed it cuz I needed my car.
no, there shouldn't be any melting. The stock mounts are rubber, not polyurethane, and the stuff Kommon used has a heat resistance of a couple hundered degrees iirc.
 

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Just wanted to say thankyou for posting this. While it wasn't done on a Honda (but I do own a 07 Civic), I did this successfully with a motor mount in my 92 Saturn project car which was giving me grief even with a brand new motor mount. I got the same polyurethane from Master Carr and poured it around the rubber motor mount. The only thing I did differently was I bought a scale and measured it out by weight, the resultant mixture cured perfectly. 100 grams of the base material and 10 grams of the activator was just enough to fill the mount.
 

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Very nice work. i was thinking about buying aftermarket mounts but this seems like it would work just as nicely.

But i have a ?. In my 88 SOHC i have 4 mounts, so is it worth the trouble to replace all the mounts or replace all of them and use this idea on 3 of the mounts (not the tranny mount). Keep in mind i have over 100k.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I wouldn't bother. I would suggest getting a brand new rear mount. You can fill it if you think that you need stiffer, but you will get a fair amount of buzz/rattle in the cabin.

If you have side/torque mounts, then I would suggest filling them as I did.
 

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So my mounts are of unknown age (potentially oe from the factory), and I gotta replace the broken mounts. Here's the question: If I replace the broken mounts, and fill them, will that reinforce the existing mounts, or will the stress still be transferred and take them out?

Soooo... Do I replace 2 and fill them, or do I have to replace all 4, and fill them? Can I get away with intact mounts from the scrapyard (still filling all)?

Thanks for any advice/experiences you have had with this method

RedneckRicer
 

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inspect all the mounts

if the torque mounts are torn, jsut go on ebay for inserts. the inserts do a similar job as filling, but can be softer or stiffer depending

I used inserts on my torque mounts of my del sol and had the automatic shift much smoother and no more clunks


should help reduce stress to your other mounts also
 
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