fuel control for nitrous
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why would you want a direct port dry setup?
I haven't been keeping up with the msd systems but I know their digital 6 allows for a 2 - 4 degree retard by a 12volt signal. They probably have better systems out there now that let you do more stuff but that's up to you to find.
I know uberdata and crome have scripts for no2 use but I don't think you can use any of those ecus with your engine harness. I'm not sure though
I haven't been keeping up with the msd systems but I know their digital 6 allows for a 2 - 4 degree retard by a 12volt signal. They probably have better systems out there now that let you do more stuff but that's up to you to find.
I know uberdata and crome have scripts for no2 use but I don't think you can use any of those ecus with your engine harness. I'm not sure though
direct port dry because it's much cheaper than direct port wet. It's also safer, since you only have one noid, if it fails to open, you won't destroy your engine (if it fails to close, your screwed either way, so no difference there). Thanks for the info on MSD, I'll check into that (I'll also check into chrome and uberdata, just to verify they aren't compatible).
direct port dry is something that's big in the LSx and LTx engines (go to nitrousforum.com, that's a great place to learn a lot of stuff) and that's where all the support is for direct port dry(harrisspeedworks.com has a ton of stuff, another good site to go to if you want to learn more). You definitely are not limited to 50 hp with DP dry, this is a whole new thing with nitrous and you can do 250 hp (or more) with it if your engine can take it. I don't think it's going to work out for me though; with the support for this in the import scene non-existent and me having an OBDII vehicle, I can't find what I need to support the DP dry.
what I'm saying is that you're limited to 50hp with a dry shot using it in the conventional way...
Now if you some how manage to get the ecu to fire off the injectors to handle the nitrous than you'll only be limited by injector size. It's definetly not impossible but I think you'll be one of the first to accomplish it. lol
Personally, I don't see the advantage a direct port dry setup.
Now if you some how manage to get the ecu to fire off the injectors to handle the nitrous than you'll only be limited by injector size. It's definetly not impossible but I think you'll be one of the first to accomplish it. lol
Personally, I don't see the advantage a direct port dry setup.
conventionally, 50, maybe 75 hp is the dry limit. The benefit of dry direct port is, in comparision to the others:
dry:+-50 hp limit
wet: inconsistent distribution between cylinders; fuel noid can fail and engine is destroyed
wet direct port: more expensive; if fuel noid fails engine will probably be destroyed.
It's easy to get this setup to work with the LS (corvette) platform due to the new products HSW has come up with. If I could find a way to have tune that would increase the injector duty cycle when 12V is applied to a wire, (which would feed off the noid activation wire) I would be set (timing would still be an issue, but MSD could probably remedy that). The problem is that I have an OBDII vehicle and I don't know of any OBDII tuning software.
dry:+-50 hp limit
wet: inconsistent distribution between cylinders; fuel noid can fail and engine is destroyed
wet direct port: more expensive; if fuel noid fails engine will probably be destroyed.
It's easy to get this setup to work with the LS (corvette) platform due to the new products HSW has come up with. If I could find a way to have tune that would increase the injector duty cycle when 12V is applied to a wire, (which would feed off the noid activation wire) I would be set (timing would still be an issue, but MSD could probably remedy that). The problem is that I have an OBDII vehicle and I don't know of any OBDII tuning software.
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problem with direct port dry..youa re relying on your injectors to provide the extra fuel...and when you are off the bottle its going to run overly rich. And silinoid failure isn't a common problem..The main cause of silinoid failure is over heating and shorts...as long as your wireing is solid and you arnt baking the silinoids you have nothing to worry about.I dont even know of a fuel controller that will compensate for nitrous jsut by applying 12v to it. Even if there was..you are having to use very big injectors and compensate for no nitrous by having an exteemely short duty cycle..your'e asking for more trouble there than a standard DP kit..plus bro..you have an accord..Why waste the money of a DP kit on such a big vehicle? You're limited to about a 75 max on that motor as it is
I'll waste my money on whatever I want 
what's the average duty cycle on an injector? The whole problem with the setup as I want it is the fuel management, so obviously its existence is in question. And finally, why waste the money on my vehicle; because I plan on getting a better-suited platform after I get out of college and can afford one, so I just take it off my car, put it on the new car. That way I can go ahead and have everything I need for the setup on my new car.
And why are you talking about the injectors being strained? Your relying on them in a conventional dry setup, same as with dry DP. And contrary to what is apparently common belief, it's not like you have to run massive horsepower on a DP setup (I'd be shooting for about 50 hp). The reason? Peace of mind that each cylinder is getting the same amount of n2o, and when people see a DP setup, it's cool (by this point I think I'm just going conventional dry b/c of the tight quarters around my IM, so I'm just defending my position)
what's the average duty cycle on an injector? The whole problem with the setup as I want it is the fuel management, so obviously its existence is in question. And finally, why waste the money on my vehicle; because I plan on getting a better-suited platform after I get out of college and can afford one, so I just take it off my car, put it on the new car. That way I can go ahead and have everything I need for the setup on my new car.And why are you talking about the injectors being strained? Your relying on them in a conventional dry setup, same as with dry DP. And contrary to what is apparently common belief, it's not like you have to run massive horsepower on a DP setup (I'd be shooting for about 50 hp). The reason? Peace of mind that each cylinder is getting the same amount of n2o, and when people see a DP setup, it's cool
(by this point I think I'm just going conventional dry b/c of the tight quarters around my IM, so I'm just defending my position)
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I'll waste my money on whatever I want
And why are you talking about the injectors being strained? Your relying on them in a conventional dry setup, same as with dry DP. And contrary to what is apparently common belief, it's not like you have to run massive horsepower on a DP setup (I'd be shooting for about 50 hp). The reason? Peace of mind that each cylinder is getting the same amount of n2o, and when people see a DP setup, it's cool
Average duty cycle varies with tune, injector size, and injector manufacturer.
I'm talking in sense of a larger application. Not a 50 shot. you're talking a lot of labor involved in removing the manifold and tapping 4 holes just for a dry setup. My next thing is I dont even know if anyone makes jets small enough..because you are talking a 12.5 shot for each cyclinder. My next concern is..ok..you put it on now..take it off for the next car...what are you going to do about the holes?
I was talking about duty cycle on stock tune for 96 Accord
It is a lot of work to remove the IM, but it's the same amount for wet and dry DP setups, so not sure about that statement.
Yes, there are jets small enough, I've checked (the size would be .017 per cylinder with the bottle pressure at 1000 psi)
To plug the holes, I could have four aluminum bung blanks (pn: 72555) welded in to plug the holes, or I could replace the IM for about 60-80 bucks
It is a lot of work to remove the IM, but it's the same amount for wet and dry DP setups, so not sure about that statement.
Yes, there are jets small enough, I've checked (the size would be .017 per cylinder with the bottle pressure at 1000 psi)
To plug the holes, I could have four aluminum bung blanks (pn: 72555) welded in to plug the holes, or I could replace the IM for about 60-80 bucks
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he is saying your doing alot of work for a sub-par setup. you're doing the work required to make alot of power and you're gonna waste it on an inefficient dry setup and it's on a virtually stock accord.
how in the flying rats hind end is it sub-par? Oh, and god forbid I save up money to put in new pistons, rods, etc to strengthen the engine, allowing me to up the shot. I'm about to decide to make it my life objective to do this at some point, just to satisfy my need to say a little "so there". Honestly, when you get down to it, why use anything less than an eight cylinder engine to make power; when you get down to it, virtually everyone on this site is involved in some folly scheme on how to make a four cylinder go faster and make more power. With few exceptions, there is no reason to go with a four cylinders to be the fastest person around, and that's not my goal; my goal is to add a little more power when I want it to a slow vehicle.
Now, with my rant out of the way, I said I have decided to go with a single nozzle dry setup for now, buy parts here and there throughout college, and when I get out of college, get a job and get the platform I want, I'll have almost everything I need to jump right into installation on that vehicle, which will be a corvette or a camaro, which has all the supporting electronics to allow for a dry DP setup that can take over a 100 hp shot on the stock engine. Does this decision satisfy everyone who wants to bit** about ME wasting MY money on what I want to do, saying it's folly (so is everyone else's projects to add any real power to a street driven FOUR CYLINDER)?
Now, with my rant out of the way, I said I have decided to go with a single nozzle dry setup for now, buy parts here and there throughout college, and when I get out of college, get a job and get the platform I want, I'll have almost everything I need to jump right into installation on that vehicle, which will be a corvette or a camaro, which has all the supporting electronics to allow for a dry DP setup that can take over a 100 hp shot on the stock engine. Does this decision satisfy everyone who wants to bit** about ME wasting MY money on what I want to do, saying it's folly (so is everyone else's projects to add any real power to a street driven FOUR CYLINDER)?
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1. chill out
2. a dry shot is inferior to a wet shot, it is a sub-par setup. you're gonna rip it off down the road to put a better system on anyway. save the money you're putting into the spray and use it towards permanent mods to the motor.
3. we're trying to get you to do it the right way. you have a stock accord.
4. you act like you're the only broke college student trying to build his ride up.
5. truth be told you don't need spray invest in suspension if you're hell bent on making this car a performer.
6. it's the internet and these are suggestions. chill out with the rants about nothing
2. a dry shot is inferior to a wet shot, it is a sub-par setup. you're gonna rip it off down the road to put a better system on anyway. save the money you're putting into the spray and use it towards permanent mods to the motor.
3. we're trying to get you to do it the right way. you have a stock accord.
4. you act like you're the only broke college student trying to build his ride up.
5. truth be told you don't need spray invest in suspension if you're hell bent on making this car a performer.
6. it's the internet and these are suggestions. chill out with the rants about nothing
1- I'm irritated, it'll pass, don't take it to heart
2- how is dry inferior to wet
3- don't understand what you mean, expand on this one
4- no I'm not, I'm saying I'll make due with this until I can buy what I really want
5- spray = straight line suspension = more for cornering (there is suspension for straight lines, but that's not what your talking about I don't think)
6- most people on the internet treat there suggestions like the gold standard and I tired of it(not saying that's what your doing, some other people do though) And suggestions are great, but it seems that nobody wants to leave it at a suggestion, they want to keep pressing it, which also irritates me.
2- how is dry inferior to wet
3- don't understand what you mean, expand on this one
4- no I'm not, I'm saying I'll make due with this until I can buy what I really want
5- spray = straight line suspension = more for cornering (there is suspension for straight lines, but that's not what your talking about I don't think)
6- most people on the internet treat there suggestions like the gold standard and I tired of it(not saying that's what your doing, some other people do though) And suggestions are great, but it seems that nobody wants to leave it at a suggestion, they want to keep pressing it, which also irritates me.
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1. it's cool
2. NitrousWorks Technical Information
this touches on it. but a wet shot is exactly what it says mixed with the fuel, there is a reason dry shot potential is limited vs wetshots.
3. you're wasting money and time on a 50 dry shot when you could invest in suspension or other engine components to increase power and reliability.
4.ok
5. you need to do your homework. suspension isn't just for cornering. you need better suspension to put the power to the ground effieciently. stock/aged accord suspension was never meant to efficiently use power like that. adding power to a car is pointless if you can't use it. a 50 shot in your car would only put you at roughly 150-155 whp for 15 second spurt or however long you spray at wot, not to mention you have a crappy geared tranny. you'll still get beat by lightly modded civics, which would be disappointing after all the work you just put into your ride
6. i'm just trying to save you the headache of having to go back and re-do stuff that could've been prevented. you'll see more of a performance gain from better suspension, tires. more hp doesn't mean you're ride will be faster. stock b18b's will easily give a bolt-on b16 a run for their money and they make 20 less hp factory. there just so many factors and i would hate for you to blow your money/tim on this setup only to realize it wasn't really worth it.
2. NitrousWorks Technical Information
this touches on it. but a wet shot is exactly what it says mixed with the fuel, there is a reason dry shot potential is limited vs wetshots.
3. you're wasting money and time on a 50 dry shot when you could invest in suspension or other engine components to increase power and reliability.
4.ok
5. you need to do your homework. suspension isn't just for cornering. you need better suspension to put the power to the ground effieciently. stock/aged accord suspension was never meant to efficiently use power like that. adding power to a car is pointless if you can't use it. a 50 shot in your car would only put you at roughly 150-155 whp for 15 second spurt or however long you spray at wot, not to mention you have a crappy geared tranny. you'll still get beat by lightly modded civics, which would be disappointing after all the work you just put into your ride
6. i'm just trying to save you the headache of having to go back and re-do stuff that could've been prevented. you'll see more of a performance gain from better suspension, tires. more hp doesn't mean you're ride will be faster. stock b18b's will easily give a bolt-on b16 a run for their money and they make 20 less hp factory. there just so many factors and i would hate for you to blow your money/tim on this setup only to realize it wasn't really worth it.
1- ok, no more need for #1
2- as a one nozzle setup yes (but I need help on the install of the fuel side stuff, and I don't have anyone qualified for this) as a DP system, not really, if at all
3- what engine components, what suspension components, for good improvements and comp price.
4- good to see we got that one cleared up
5- I realize that, but I do not really need better suspension for a 50 shot (forgot to mention, I'll be using a progressive controller to save my auto tranny from as much shock and strain) with a progressive controller to smoothly bring in the power.
6- I'll get my butt handed to me with the tires and suspension too, more than likely. This isn't about being able to say what my hp is, it for if I'm neck and neck with someone, I'll be able to give myself a little bit of a boost to give me the lead. I don't plan on actually doing the DP setup now, I can't put as much power as I want through it, and I don't want to put a lot of money into suspension and engine internals on a car that I plan on getting rid of after college.
So, here's where I stand:
Going conventional dry shot of 50 hp. Going to use a progressive controller to bring it in as well as a WOT switch, MSD window switch, an arming switch, and a push-button switch for the actual spray control (I know this is a lot of electrical, but I want protection from spraying below 3000ish rpms and over 6000ish rpms, protection from spraying below WOT, and I want ultimate control over when it is sprayed) One question, does the 96 accord have a throttle position wire (tells the ECU what percent the throttle is)?
2- as a one nozzle setup yes (but I need help on the install of the fuel side stuff, and I don't have anyone qualified for this) as a DP system, not really, if at all
3- what engine components, what suspension components, for good improvements and comp price.
4- good to see we got that one cleared up
5- I realize that, but I do not really need better suspension for a 50 shot (forgot to mention, I'll be using a progressive controller to save my auto tranny from as much shock and strain) with a progressive controller to smoothly bring in the power.
6- I'll get my butt handed to me with the tires and suspension too, more than likely. This isn't about being able to say what my hp is, it for if I'm neck and neck with someone, I'll be able to give myself a little bit of a boost to give me the lead. I don't plan on actually doing the DP setup now, I can't put as much power as I want through it, and I don't want to put a lot of money into suspension and engine internals on a car that I plan on getting rid of after college.
So, here's where I stand:
Going conventional dry shot of 50 hp. Going to use a progressive controller to bring it in as well as a WOT switch, MSD window switch, an arming switch, and a push-button switch for the actual spray control (I know this is a lot of electrical, but I want protection from spraying below 3000ish rpms and over 6000ish rpms, protection from spraying below WOT, and I want ultimate control over when it is sprayed) One question, does the 96 accord have a throttle position wire (tells the ECU what percent the throttle is)?
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umm not really.
and if you're getting ride of this car. i would just save up and get nice goodies for the next ride.
Why, the tires won't spin if I floor it, so no need for the tires; the suspension isn't going to greatly improve my launch and power transfer over stock with the horsepower I'm putting out, not enough to make a huge difference in race outcome anyway. I live in the middle of ricer-land here, so a "lightly modded civic" in your terms is a beast around here, at least for the "VVVEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKK PPPPPPOOOOOWWWWEERRRRRR, YYYYOOOOOOOO" type people, so basically I have ricer compitition.
All this is in relevance to straight-line power (wtf would I want nitrous in cornering situations, right?)
All this is in relevance to straight-line power (wtf would I want nitrous in cornering situations, right?)
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I was saying versus doing a standard dry or wet kit..
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