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Discussion Starter #1
Getting ready for the tear down of the B18B1 in my teg (95 OBD1, FAILMATIC). Gona be running

Ported and polished B18B head with 3 angle valve job and otherwise stock valvetrain
comptech short ram intake
jackson racing supercharger kit with the eaton m45 6psi to start, 8psi future
greddy emanage ultimate tuning system
kidd racing header
high flow cat

im looking to eliminate the need for the rise rate FMU that JRSC gives you, our current plan for the fuel setup is

walbro 255lph HP fuel pump
RC440 injectors
high flow fuel rail
aeromotive fuel pressure regulator



Im looking for some suggestions or comments here about this particular fuel setup with the way ill be running right off the bat, 6 pounds from the JRSC with the ported head. Is this complete overkill and how future proof will this be? Ill be running an innovative a/f gauge that will be hooked into the emanage ultimate. Once we have the system tuned optimally where we want it, were gona start modding the trans with the beefed up valve body, clutch kit, and torque converter.

Any extra thoughts on the aeromotive fpr? Good choice?
 

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If you get the option of the FPR with gauge GET IT, it makes things way easier to set up :D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thats all well and good if i was considering installing a thermostat for my heating and air conditioning, but i already have a pretty expensive wall mount unit to begin with.
 

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KEEP STOCK FUEL REGULATOR

KEEP STOCK FUEL RAIL

440cc injectors are fine, however you would probably be fine using prelude 330cc injectors. or are they 375?

your fuel rail is fine in upwards of 550cc injectors and stock fuel pressure.


dont change the fuel rail pressure unless the fuel injectors you use are designed with a different pressure.

those things look nice, but are unnecessary!

goddamn superchargers are getting cheaper. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOSTT!!!!!!

EDIT walbro 190 is a lot less noisy then their 255's and will be fine for use on your setup. they might be cheaper also, I havent checked recently
 

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Seems to be OK to me.

As far as future proof, you'll be stuck at 8 PSI, maybe 10 PSI tops before air temps get so hot that you'll need some way to intercool the charge, via nitrous or an LHE intercooler. Also, it's a lot of expense for not much gains. The P&P, e-manage, and larger injectors might get you 10 to 30 more WHP, tops. How long will you be happy with it? That's the ultimate question of "future proof."
 

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Discussion Starter #6
well the initial setup is just to get the ball rollin, in the mean time ill be building a stroker motor and modding the trans heavily, as far as raising the boost pressure, if i try to exceed 8 psi with the m45 unit, it would be ported and probably running on meth injection at the very least.

In terms of the FPR, the stock FPR is fine with the emanage and the bigger injectors to eliminate the need for the JRSC rise rate FMU? Thats my ultimate goal here, i want to tune via the management system, not a mechanical rise rate unit.
 

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KEEP STOCK FUEL REGULATOR

KEEP STOCK FUEL RAIL

440cc injectors are fine, however you would probably be fine using prelude 330cc injectors. or are they 375?

your fuel rail is fine in upwards of 550cc injectors and stock fuel pressure.


dont change the fuel rail pressure unless the fuel injectors you use are designed with a different pressure.

those things look nice, but are unnecessary!

goddamn superchargers are getting cheaper. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOSTT!!!!!!

EDIT walbro 190 is a lot less noisy then their 255's and will be fine for use on your setup. they might be cheaper also, I havent checked recently

FALSE
You need a FPR on any boosted application to over come the pressures.
If a NA engine has 440cc injectors it's injecting 440cc @2.5bar into NA conditions ie normal atmospheric pressures 0, even vacuum at some points.
But a Boosted application your trying to inject 440cc at 2.5bar into a pressure of eg 1bar so your only injecting 1.5bar of pressure bigger injectors wont overcome this you need pressure to get the fuel in.
I've seen Cars that run like shit when boost cuts in and it was due to weak pumps or passing fuel regs, And if anyone's fuel tested turbo cars you know about taking it to full boost and holding it on the brakes whilst testing the pressure to see if the fuel pressure drops back.
 

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walbro pumps are MUCH higher pressure tehn teh stock fuel pump

you dont need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator
when your new fuel pump is making much higher fuel line pressure, yuor oem fuel rail and regulator are jsut fine.


honda raises the fuel rail pressure so when those injectors are sucking the fuel down at high rpms, they are not getting starved.

the fuel rail pressure is not only for injectors. its also for getting the fuel to them faster then they squirt it out.


an extra 20PSI line boost from an aftermarket pump easily accomplishes that.

I got wrorst gasmileage when I installed a walbro 255 pump into my otherwise stock del sol. that was before the manual swap and turbo setup were bought.

it was because the rail was seeing higehr pressure, and each time the injector opened up, it had more fuel then usualy that it could squirt into the motor

car felt sloppy after that.
 

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walbro pumps are MUCH higher pressure tehn teh stock fuel pump

you dont need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator
when your new fuel pump is making much higher fuel line pressure, yuor oem fuel rail and regulator are jsut fine.


honda raises the fuel rail pressure so when those injectors are sucking the fuel down at high rpms, they are not getting starved.

the fuel rail pressure is not only for injectors. its also for getting the fuel to them faster then they squirt it out.


an extra 20PSI line boost from an aftermarket pump easily accomplishes that.

I got wrorst gasmileage when I installed a walbro 255 pump into my otherwise stock del sol. that was before the manual swap and turbo setup were bought.

it was because the rail was seeing higehr pressure, and each time the injector opened up, it had more fuel then usualy that it could squirt into the motor

car felt sloppy after that.
The reason why cars have a rail is because its a store for the injectors,
The fuel pump is for flow it does not affect pressure, the regulator adjusts the pressure not the pump, you need bigger flowing pumps to keep up with the rail demand, thats why people change the rail cos it's basically a bigger store for demand.
ALL cars Raise the fuel pressure on vacuum demand not just Honda thats how injection systems work, The air chamber above the Diaphragm controls the spring tension of the regulator adjusting pressure for engine demand.
The reason why your car ran like shit is because the fuel system was circulating more fuel than the return line and regulator can handle, If you made your return line bigger and put a bigger anti syphon valve on the return, your car would of been ok, basically you upped your fuel flow and pressure.
Also standard FPR are not equipped the deal with Boost in some applications I've seen them snap shut on boost before killing the fuel which leads to the "my car dies every time boost comes in?" Question.
 

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walbro pumps are MUCH higher pressure tehn teh stock fuel pump
you dont need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator
when your new fuel pump is making much higher fuel line pressure, yuor oem fuel rail and regulator are jsut fine.


honda raises the fuel rail pressure so when those injectors are sucking the fuel down at high rpms, they are not getting starved.

the fuel rail pressure is not only for injectors. its also for getting the fuel to them faster then they squirt it out.


an extra 20PSI line boost from an aftermarket pump easily accomplishes that.

I got wrorst gasmileage when I installed a walbro 255 pump into my otherwise stock del sol. that was before the manual swap and turbo setup were bought.

it was because the rail was seeing higehr pressure, and each time the injector opened up, it had more fuel then usualy that it could squirt into the motor

car felt sloppy after that.
This is a result of flow increase not higher pressure, a "walbro 255" is liters per minuet quoted thats what the numbers stand for.
One massive thing people don't do when Fuel system tuning is INCREASE THE RETURN LINE this is a must for any Fuel system up grade or as you found out it causes pressure back up into the injectors. My rule of thumb is the return should be bigger than the fuel feed line to account for excess fuel dumping on idle or throttle shut off.
 

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tell that to the hundreds of people who are running boosted hondas with only bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, and a tune.



honda MAPS can see up to 11psi, but generally limited to 2-3 psi reliably

hodna FPRS can stand a little boost.


there are 5 setups I personally see every week tht have stock FPR and RAILS.

they have been fine for a long time.



you forget, the FPR sees ZERO vacuum during high and full throttle

it has no problem staying closed.

worst case scenario (and its happened before) is the FPR closes when it sees boost, and TEMPORARILY allows the fuel rail pressure to go up several PSI before it opens again.

the honda oem FPRS are designede so they dont stay shut. the springs in them are fairly strong
 

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the hodna regulator doesnt monitor rail pressure. it reacts on manifold pressure.

boost says close up the return to keep higehr rail pressure.

it doesnt monitor the fact that a bigger pump is possibly doubling the amount of fuel going through the rail and out the return back to the pump

higehr system pressure. bigger injectors can be used without them going dry.


this is usually limited to between 200-250whp


after that, its almost a MUST to use an adjustable FPR else you risk running your injectors dry, running lean, and damaging the injectors since the gas is what lubricates the nozzles
 

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tell that to the hundreds of people who are running boosted hondas with only bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, and a tune.



honda MAPS can see up to 11psi, but generally limited to 2-3 psi reliably

hodna FPRS can stand a little boost.


there are 5 setups I personally see every week tht have stock FPR and RAILS.

they have been fine for a long time.



you forget, the FPR sees ZERO vacuum during high and full throttle

it has no problem staying closed.

worst case scenario (and its happened before) is the FPR closes when it sees boost, and TEMPORARILY allows the fuel rail pressure to go up several PSI before it opens again.

the honda oem FPRS are designede so they dont stay shut. the springs in them are fairly strong
The spring keeps them shut it doesn't keeps them open fuel pressure keeps them open.

Im only going off what i know and have tested and found but I'm limited to Honda's and I'm learning :(
My stuff is Nissan's
VW's
and fords (mostly 80's turbo charged)
All start at a minimum of 10psi boost
 

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the hodna regulator doesnt monitor rail pressure. it reacts on manifold pressure.

boost says close up the return to keep higehr rail pressure.

it doesnt monitor the fact that a bigger pump is possibly doubling the amount of fuel going through the rail and out the return back to the pump

higehr system pressure. bigger injectors can be used without them going dry.


this is usually limited to between 200-250whp


after that, its almost a MUST to use an adjustable FPR else you risk running your injectors dry, running lean, and damaging the injectors since the gas is what lubricates the nozzles
The reg does not monitor incoming fuel pressure but if you put a bigger pump on and the fuel system it cant dump enough fuel back to the tank it's going to back up through the system,
If a fuel return is designed to return 100liters/minuet on a 180liters a minuet pump and all of a sudden your asking it to return 200liters a minuet from a 250liters/minuet pump it cant return enough and the pressure backs up into the rail and fuel lines.
I've seen the flexible return lines burst on skylines when bigger fuel pumps have been fitted due to excessive demand on standard fuel return lines.

if you put a blank end over the pump and read the maximum pressure build up it'll go up to about 30psi, so if your trying to flow 200 litres/min through a hole built to flow a max of 100 litres/min your going to get a back up of pressure

roughly
[email protected]/min
[email protected]/min flow, restricted by 100 liters/min = [email protected]/min
you just increased your fuel pressure by 10psi because the back up of pump pressure because you cant get rid of the fuel quick enough,
Its the finger over the hose pipe principal.
 

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the hodna regulator doesnt monitor rail pressure. it reacts on manifold pressure.

boost says close up the return to keep higehr rail pressure.

it doesnt monitor the fact that a bigger pump is possibly doubling the amount of fuel going through the rail and out the return back to the pump

higehr system pressure. bigger injectors can be used without them going dry.


this is usually limited to between 200-250whp


after that, its almost a MUST to use an adjustable FPR else you risk running your injectors dry, running lean, and damaging the injectors since the gas is what lubricates the nozzles
Again thats incorrect because pressure is not flow, to stop this happening you fit a bigger pump to stop the rail running out.
If you ask for more you have to supply more, or risk fuel pressure decrease due to lack of supply, If you cant get enough fuel there you have no chance of getting the pressure you need.

Fit FPR . . Why? to over come the increase in manifold atmospheric pressure acting on the fuel system with boost affecting the injection pressure,OR to increase the atomisation of fuel in a N/A engine increasing the flame picture+the amount of energy produced by the burn, so better pressure=better spray patten=better more efficient burn=more power+MPG.

Fit Bigger pump . . Why? to keep the fuel flow demand the same when increasing the flow of the injectors.
 

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check this out

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/tech/fuelsystems.pdf

This document should substantially increase your knowledge about fuel injection.

Also Walborow makes 2 versions of the 255, one has normal fuel pressure and one has high pressure it think normal is 50 and high pressure is 80. Check that out.

It doesn't really matter if you use more fuel pressure and smaller injectors or larger injectors and less pressure. However smaller injectors tend to be easier to tune out for idling than larger ones. Also I would think a middle ground is better than going extreme low pressure big injectors or extreme high pressure smaller injectors.

Increased boost fights against your fuel pressure I believe. I haven't read on fuel n stuff in a while though, so don't take my word but the point d14 is making sounds correct.
 
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