full swap b18c5+vortech supercharger(my project)
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If you going to use the Vortech kit that was for the 99-00 Civic Si, it's not going to work. There some significant fitment issues, unless you can do work arounds.
Did they finally come out with a B18 unit? Last I saw was a unit for the B16 and S2000 motor. That would be cool if they did.
Did they finally come out with a B18 unit? Last I saw was a unit for the B16 and S2000 motor. That would be cool if they did.
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i seen this done. a friend of mine linked me a post (a while ago) of some guy with an h22a in the trunk. RWD. talk about fabricating. nicehobie237 said:
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damn, can I get the hook up?...I've been looking for someone to help me out with a rwd conversion on my sol...there's someone here in my town who has a shop that said they could do it...but he said it would run me damn near 20g's...does that sound about right?...hobie237 said:
Warped Sol said:
yes they did!
but why it whant to fit?
basicly it's the same motors( by the look)
and, yea here is my plan!
i'm goona get some money of my inshurace
(roundabout 3000$)
with that(i'm hoping) buying b18c5 full swap
(peapole says that this engine fits like glove)
and my old swap (b16a2) sell for 2000$(i'm in europe)
and buy used vortech cs (kit with aftercooler)
If someone have beter advice or plan, shoot!
tnx a lot guys!
solsykness said:
20gs is about right if you pay for the labor... we're gonna go out and get a del sol as cheap as possible, put it on a lift and use junkyard bmw/audi/mazda parts (thinking about reworking the miata drivetrain) to do the conversion as cheap as possible... its going to be a lot of frustration and fabrication, but it should be well worth it
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10,272 Posts
Ok well.....turbos are great because of their top end and crazy power....but they tend to lag in the low end because the exhaust gasses need to spool the turbine up before the motor sees boost.
So, turbo upside = big power, mainly mid-top end
turbo downside = laggy in low RPMs (unless you get a tiny turbo that spools fast, but they will lose power up top....there are ball bearing turbos that spool up fast and give plenty of top end but these are considerably more expensive)
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As for superchargers.....the most common one for our hondas are roots type blowers (Jackson Racing Supercharger).....these are blowers that are driven by the crank pulley (like accessories such as power steering, alternator, A/C)......the main reason us honda people like JRSC's is because it makes our little 4 cylinders feel like v8's....meaning it has very linear power and has full boost by like 1500 rpm or so. It gives our little torqueless bitch motors the low end that they lack....but it also gives a nice linear powerband so it doesn't die off in the high end. The only drawback to these is that they tend to not make as much power because they just don't flow as much as a turbo, AND because they put parasitic lag on the motor. (Ever turned on the A/C and felt the car's power decrease?) It's being driven by the crank so a decent amount of power is lost in driving the supercharger.
So...supercharger upside = low end and nice linear powerband
supercharger downside = not as much peak power...and intake temps tend to be pretty hot because it's not the most efficient blower and because of the lack of an intercooler.
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As for the Vortech Supercharger....it's not a roots type blower so it doesn't have that low end. It uses a turbine just like a turbo, except the turbine is driven off the crank. So you not only see parasitic drag on the motor, but turbo lag as well! Not to mention the price of it!
IMO it's way overpriced.
I"m budgeting about 2500 give or take 300 for my turbo setup and that's going to be with a ball bearing turbo, intercooler, tuning, and everything, the whole kit and caboodle.
And in the end I hope to be making 270-280 whp with decent spool times too, and I've got a b16.
So, turbo upside = big power, mainly mid-top end
turbo downside = laggy in low RPMs (unless you get a tiny turbo that spools fast, but they will lose power up top....there are ball bearing turbos that spool up fast and give plenty of top end but these are considerably more expensive)
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As for superchargers.....the most common one for our hondas are roots type blowers (Jackson Racing Supercharger).....these are blowers that are driven by the crank pulley (like accessories such as power steering, alternator, A/C)......the main reason us honda people like JRSC's is because it makes our little 4 cylinders feel like v8's....meaning it has very linear power and has full boost by like 1500 rpm or so. It gives our little torqueless bitch motors the low end that they lack....but it also gives a nice linear powerband so it doesn't die off in the high end. The only drawback to these is that they tend to not make as much power because they just don't flow as much as a turbo, AND because they put parasitic lag on the motor. (Ever turned on the A/C and felt the car's power decrease?) It's being driven by the crank so a decent amount of power is lost in driving the supercharger.
So...supercharger upside = low end and nice linear powerband
supercharger downside = not as much peak power...and intake temps tend to be pretty hot because it's not the most efficient blower and because of the lack of an intercooler.
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As for the Vortech Supercharger....it's not a roots type blower so it doesn't have that low end. It uses a turbine just like a turbo, except the turbine is driven off the crank. So you not only see parasitic drag on the motor, but turbo lag as well! Not to mention the price of it!
IMO it's way overpriced.
I"m budgeting about 2500 give or take 300 for my turbo setup and that's going to be with a ball bearing turbo, intercooler, tuning, and everything, the whole kit and caboodle.
And in the end I hope to be making 270-280 whp with decent spool times too, and I've got a b16.
procharger
hey gurusan, you seem like you know a lot about turbo's and such.. Have you heard anything about the Procharger. runs off the belt but has a spool like a turbo, has an intercooler. What i've heard, it has the low end torque like a supercharger, yet maintains the pull throughout the rmps. costs a lot. What do you think about that?
hey gurusan, you seem like you know a lot about turbo's and such.. Have you heard anything about the Procharger. runs off the belt but has a spool like a turbo, has an intercooler. What i've heard, it has the low end torque like a supercharger, yet maintains the pull throughout the rmps. costs a lot. What do you think about that?
OK , YOU ARE MY GUYgurusan said:
)I whant strenght on high rpm's but talking about 10000-11000 rpms
)and hope to get 300-320 hp on wheel's
posible or not posible?
why-why not?
references? what to buy? price?new or used (that is the question bro
)maybe you gonna convert me on turbo
))b18c5 still stands :evil :evil :evil
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10,272 Posts
Umm if you want to rev to 10k-11k that's going to take a lot of work...and you're not going to be doing that with turbo.N I T R O said:OK , YOU ARE MY GUY
I whant strenght on high rpm's but talking about 10000-11000 rpms
and hope to get 300-320 hp on wheel's
posible or not posible?
why-why not?
references? what to buy? price?new or used (that is the question bro
maybe you gonna convert me on turbo
b18c5 still stands :evil :evil :evil
And on a stock ITR block I'd say 300 whp would be pushing it, and i hope you know a good tuner. 10.8:1 C/R is kinda high for boosting a bunch.
And I suggest you do a lot of reading first....if you have the funds here's an awesome kit. http://www.turboneticsinc.com/tsystems.html
It has a ball bearing turbo so it spools quick and it should get you to 300 whp with proper tuning.
I wouldn't go over 300 whp without a thicker headgasket, ARP head studs, forged rods and pistons though
gurusan said:
yeah, the CR is really pretty high to be boosted, and as for building the motor... we had to build the hell out of my friends GSR motor to get it to rev (hopefully) and make power to 10k or maybe 10500... so yeah... do some reading... a LOT of reading
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Mounting points for the driver's side B16 bracket won't match the B18.
Not trying to start flame war or the old "my forced induction is better than yours" debate, but need to point up some factoids.
1. Vortech doesn't have low end, but that can be an advantage. Higer psi turbos and roots blowers can have traction problems with too much power (especially on street tires).
2. Roots blowers have tip in detonation problems (due to heat and leaning out) that must be dealt with in some form or fashion.
3. The centrifugal supercharger (VC) are very reliable.
4. Low end power tends to have potential for less engine wear and stress. The power is pushing the crank and internals while they are moving relatively slower. With Vortech, the internals are allowed to speed up with less stress.
5. If you racing, go turbo. Hands down, best power for the buck. Vortech expensive. Yep. Reliable? Year and a half, boosting 10 psi with 240 whp and good engine management. All my turbo and Jackson SC friends are still jumping through hoops to get their stuff to run right. It can be done, but I'm happy with the Vortech.
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