Honda and Acura Car Forums banner
1 - 20 of 857 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
2,574 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, since I wrote the first half of my H22 FAQ off-line, I had it saved on the hard drive that I didn't have to reformat. So in partial glory, I give you, the FAQ.

So what is the h22/h23?

The h22 is found on preludes and on accords in other countries like Japan and through out Europe. The h23 was found on USDM 92-96 prelude Si's.

So why is a good swap?

It is a direct bolt in replacement for our f22/f23 engines. Even the transmission can be used independent of the motor type. H22 motor can bolt to a f22 tranny and vice versa.

What about the engines that you see swaped into civics and stuff?

Since civics are so common, it's common to hear of b16a's and b18c's and the like. While high in horse power, these engine lack torque. Even the almighty b18c5 (ITR) wouldn't be of much use for our heavier accords. Weight demands torque, plain and simple.

K-series motors (ie, the K20A from the RSX/Integra Type R or K24 from the TSX) into models before 2003 can be done, however it will take a LOT of custom work and is not economically feasable at this point in time. The motors spin the opposite direction as the F and H-series engines, so a complete changeover would be needed to do the swap (engine, trans, ecu). Not to mention custom mounts would have to be fabricated and research on which axles can be used still needs to be done. Not only that, but K-series motors are obd2, so wiring it back down to work in an obd1 car will surely cause lots of headaches. Wiring it to another OBD2 car will not be as bad, but still will be a chore given the differences in the Integra and Accord wirings.

How expensive are the swaps?

Well, it depends on the year of your car and your tastes. To be legal you must use the same year engine or newer than your car. The newer the car, the more likely you'll spend a pretty penny to enjoy a legal swap.
Complete swaps are commonly seen for $2300 -- 1996 or older, manual transmission. With an auto transmission it'll be about $200 less. With no tranny, about $600 less. With LSD, add $300.

1997 or newer run about $3000 with the same price changes for your options.
This is not to say that you can't trust a cheaper engine. Often you can find an engine for sale, when the owner doesn't have an idea of the true value. Or if you plan to do internal engine work, then a higher milage engine will be cheaper and just as good for your application.

www.car-part.com has H22 longblocks ranging from $650-$2000 depending on mileage.

Labor will vary greatly depending on your area of the country. Out in cali, you can find shops that will schedule you in for a Thursday for $600. Outside of cali, the prices you'll see will typically run $1000 - $1500. The inexperienced shops will be on the low end, the shops that know how much of a pain it can be will run higher. If you're near the Canadian border, it might be worth checking prices out there. It's still $1200, but thats CDN, so we're talking about $800. And none of that Canadian tax on labor either.

What's with the JDM and USDM?
JDM = Japanese domestic market. USDM, of course is the US domestic market.
JDM engines are much more common to find. This has to deal with the extremely stringent emmisions and fines that are put on older vehicles. And besides, it's usually the rich that drive in Japan, and they'll get a new car fairly often. So cars and their engines tend to have a big turn over. On the average, less than 60k will be put on an engine. Usually it will be much less. Now that the origional owners are done with the engine, they'll ship it to us and make some extra money from it. Personally, I don't mind one bit.

USDM is a bit different. Most USDM engines are driven well into the 100k mileage range. Kinda high for my tastes. And a lot of times, that 100k is pretty well driven too. The most common source of low milage h22 engines is from wrecked preludes. This doesn't happen nearly enough to be a good source of engines. Often the wreck will damage the engine as well, making it even less common. If you do happen on an engine at a wrecking yard, it won't be very cheap either. A lot of wrecking yards are catching on and will charge prime money on the parts you need.

now then, what about transmissions?

As I stated earlier, f22 and f23 transmissions will bolt up to an h22 and vice versa. So what's the advantages of each? Well, the h22/h23 are high revving engines. As such, the gearing can be closer than on an f-series. So that translates into more acceleration and quicker torque bands. An f22 or f23 transmission would take longer to accelerate the car into the peak torque band. It's estimated that the gearing makes up to .5 seconds in the 1320.

Couldn't you just swap the transmissions and get that kind of gain? sure, but there are drawbacks. While your acceleration will imporove substantially, your top end will suffer greatly. The f22 and f23 don't have the same kind of headroom as the h22. You'll run about 1.5k from redline at highway speeds. So if you travel long distances, a tranny swap alone isn't such a good idea.

And of course a few obvious notes. Since the h22 tranny comes on a car with more horses, it's built to be stronger than an f22 transmissions. When you start pulling serious power, this will become an big issue. An h22 w/ a large nitrous shot will wear down an f22 in no time. Estimated strengths is that the auto can take 250 hp and the manual 300 hp. It seems like a big number, but you can get up there pretty quickly after an engine swap.

What year motor should I get?
It doesn't really matter. The most common are the 93-95 years. California law (something you should keep in mind just in case your state desides to adopt California's stringent smog rules) says it doesn't matter what year motor you put in, as long as you keep all the emissions equipment from the same OBD system, or better, your car is on. For example, a 96+ Accord can have any year H22 in it from anywhere in the world. However, the car must retain it's OBD2 system, along with all the related sensors, vacuum lines, ECU, etc etc. -UltraMagneticAL
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,574 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Feel free to ask questions about the engine here, but please keep specific swap problems to a different thread.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,988 Posts
What kind of HP does the H22 put out?

Is there a difference between a H22 and H22A?

What kind of $$ would I be looking at to drop one of these babies into my 98 Civic LX? It's an auto as well, which will be changed to a manual at the time of the swap!

I plan to go all out and turbo it as well!!

I want no less than 275 horses before I am all done :eek:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,574 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
93-96 Prelude VTEC
H22A:
- 190hp @ 6800rpm & 158ft/lbs @ 5500rpm


97-98 Prelude VTEC
H22A:
- 195hp @ 7000rpm & 156ft/lbs @ 5250rpm


99+ Prelude Type-SH VTEC
H22A:
- 200hp @ 6800rpm


97-99 Prelude Type-SH VTEC & 98+ Prelude SiR-S VTEC (JDM)
H22A:
- 220hp @ 7200rpm


93-95 Prelude Si VTEC (JDM)
H22A:
- 200hp @ 6800rpm


92-95 Prelude Si
H23A1:
- 160hp @ 6400RPM


00 Prelude
0-60mph: 6.8
1/4 mile: 15.4

00 Prelude SH
0-60mph: 7.7
1/4 mile: 15.5

95 Prelude VTEC
0-60mph: 6.7
1/4 mile: 15.1
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,574 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
h22 is the short name
h22a are the ones from japan
h22a1, h22a4, etc. are eiher USDM or EDM. The number refers to the head number. I'd have to lookup that info again.

275 horses on an h22 is pretty easy to do. about 8 psi and you'll be there. h22 is strong enough to handle a bit more when it's still stock. A little build up and you can look at 300+ figures and still expect reliability.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
The 93-95 are the most sought after USDM H22's because of their closed deck block. From 96 on, they have been open deck. The 97-01 Prelude gearbox also does'nt have as good of a second and third gear as the 93-96 models. It is also advised to use the Accord intermediate shaft when swapping into accords. I don't know about civics, but there is a full kit complete with motor mounts available for civics.
 
Joined
·
19 Posts
what would i need to put 97 or newer usmd h22 in my accord? (i would keep my f22 auto tranny..

ive heard u have to use different wiring harness's and ecu's from different honda cars (cuz my car is obd2) is this true..

if i bought a usdm prelude motor that originaly came stick would it work with my auto tranny or would i need a motor that was used with a auto?..

thanks...L8S
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,574 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think you have to do some modifications to the wire harness, but it's nothing extreme. And most engine swaps will come with an ECU, or you can ask the place you buy from and they can often get he ECU you need if it's different.

If you plan on using the stock auto tranny, then you might just end up using the stock ECU and buying a vtec controller for the vtec. I don't think it would be a big deal to do. Of course it would be best to get a second opinion on this.

There is no h23 vtec from the factory. It is possible to swap heads. It will get you up to just a hair over 200hp. If you've got a deep pocket and plan to turbo afterwards, this could be a worth while project, but not for the average joe. Sometimes unexplicable problems arise for no apparent reason. You might be thinking of the h22 type-s which has 220 from the factory.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Re: h23 vtec

Accord-ing2Me said:
someone posted that this motor does exist. in the accord wagons in japan.. type r wagon i think.. but it might have been an sir-t wagon.... not sure but it was in an accord wagon in japan.
I think JDM type R Accords used an f series motor
F20b
 

· Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Okay, I think I am ready to do my H22 swap. I have a 1997 LX and I am just wondering what I am really in for. Can I just use the new ECU and wire harness that comes with the engine, or do I have to modify it still. Any other problems that I might run into while doing this swap?? Any help would be great. Also, is a JDM H22 going to be smog legal in CA. Thank you for all of your help!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
can someone point me to a good shop in LA for a swap, i also wanan rebuild the entire motor (going all motor on it) what kind of power can i expect from that and also how much should i been expecting to pay? Can someone also recommend some parts i should use when building it up. Thanks
 
1 - 20 of 857 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top