Honda and Acura Car Forums banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im putting together a turbo kit for my Lude, so far I got an XS Power manifold, wastegate, and intercooler piping. Im trying to find a good deal on a T3 turbo, but im not sure if I should just get a cheap one or wait and save for a better one. Im only going to be pushing 7 psi since I have the 10.6:1 JDM engine and dont have the cash to build the engine, so I have to stay at low boost. Ill be happy with 240-250 hp to the wheels.

Looking on Ebay I can get:
1. a used garret T3 off a saab for $200-$250
2. a new(I think) or rebuilt generic T3 (45 trim .42 ar) for $300-$350
3. a new polished Turbonetics T3 (60 trim .48 ar) for $525

What compressor trim and exhaust ar should I be looking for If i want a quick spooling but still descent power all the way through the rpm range?

Anyone know where to get a good deal on a T3 turbo?

Also the tuner at the shop I went to said if im only going to be running 7 psi I can use my stock injectors and fuel pump, I dont need a low compression head gasket, and he said he will be able to tune it all with a VAFC. He says he can make more power using just the VAFC than tuning a Chipped ECU with Uberdata. Will i be able to get a good tune with just the VAFC on low boost?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Quaalude22SE said:
Im putting together a turbo kit for my Lude, so far I got an XS Power manifold, wastegate, and intercooler piping. Im trying to find a good deal on a T3 turbo, but im not sure if I should just get a cheap one or wait and save for a better one. Im only going to be pushing 7 psi since I have the 10.6:1 JDM engine and dont have the cash to build the engine, so I have to stay at low boost. Ill be happy with 240-250 hp to the wheels.

Looking on Ebay I can get:
1. a used garret T3 off a saab for $200-$250
2. a new(I think) or rebuilt generic T3 (45 trim .42 ar) for $300-$350
3. a new polished Turbonetics T3 (60 trim .48 ar) for $525

What compressor trim and exhaust ar should I be looking for If i want a quick spooling but still descent power all the way through the rpm range?

Anyone know where to get a good deal on a T3 turbo?

Also the tuner at the shop I went to said if im only going to be running 7 psi I can use my stock injectors and fuel pump, I dont need a low compression head gasket, and he said he will be able to tune it all with a VAFC. He says he can make more power using just the VAFC than tuning a Chipped ECU with Uberdata. Will i be able to get a good tune with just the VAFC on low boost?
A T3 turbo is kinda on the smallish size and will probably run out of steam on the topend. A bigger turbo at lower boost would be better.

And your tuner is on crack. I would run far away from him and never go back. A VAFC making more power then a far better engine mangement system like Hondata/uberdata? Not only is in not safe for your engine to run a vafc in your turbo build I don't see how it could make more power then a system that allows you to have much broader control of your engine tuning.

Especially running such a high c/r tuning will be very important. Find a good tuner and get a program that he likes. And I would defintely upgrade at least your fuel pump. :number1
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,826 Posts
Quaalude22SE said:
Im putting together a turbo kit for my Lude, so far I got an XS Power manifold, wastegate, and intercooler piping. Im trying to find a good deal on a T3 turbo, but im not sure if I should just get a cheap one or wait and save for a better one. Im only going to be pushing 7 psi since I have the 10.6:1 JDM engine and dont have the cash to build the engine, so I have to stay at low boost. Ill be happy with 240-250 hp to the wheels.

Looking on Ebay I can get:
1. a used garret T3 off a saab for $200-$250
2. a new(I think) or rebuilt generic T3 (45 trim .42 ar) for $300-$350
3. a new polished Turbonetics T3 (60 trim .48 ar) for $525

What compressor trim and exhaust ar should I be looking for If i want a quick spooling but still descent power all the way through the rpm range?

Anyone know where to get a good deal on a T3 turbo?

Also the tuner at the shop I went to said if im only going to be running 7 psi I can use my stock injectors and fuel pump, I dont need a low compression head gasket, and he said he will be able to tune it all with a VAFC. He says he can make more power using just the VAFC than tuning a Chipped ECU with Uberdata. Will i be able to get a good tune with just the VAFC on low boost?
since you dont' have the cash to build the engine. save up the cash and don't be an idiot. i woudl hate for you to blow your motor up. and you have to becareful with the stock h22a's and boost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
WVU97GS-R said:
since you dont' have the cash to build the engine. save up the cash and don't be an idiot. i woudl hate for you to blow your motor up. and you have to becareful with the stock h22a's and boost.
Actually at that low power level he could easily go turbo. He'd have to find a good tuner, but at low boost it'll be quite reliable.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,826 Posts
unaTEINable said:
Actually at that low power level he could easily go turbo. He'd have to find a good tuner, but at low boost it'll be quite reliable.
anymotor is reliable at low boost with a good tune. i'm saying why chance it when you know the boost bug will pull you to the darkside. save money and do ti right the first time. :ninja lets see hmmm do all the work at once and and do your in ternals and save 1000+ bucks the first time. or half ass it get what you want right now only to spend more later on redoing everything you should've done in the first place.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
2.2L said:
Thats what I thought.

What exactly are the main differences between the VAFC and Uberdata tuning wise for boost aplications? I know they both can adjust air/fuel ratios but what makes Uberdata better for boost?

I definatly do not have the $ to build the engine, so thats out of the question. I think ill probably just go with a chipped ECU from phearable.net and have it tuned via uberdata.

The reason the tuner said he can make more power with the Apexi AFC is becasue he had some kid come in with a turbo F20 accord that had been tuned via Uberdata that was making 185 whp and he tuned it with the AFC and made 210 whp and its been running great ever since. He's mainly a sr20 guy (he has tons of them at the shop, he even started up a Skyline front clip via a battery pack so we could hear it...it sounded badass!) so I dont think that he knows what up with Vtec, which is far more complcated to tune.

So back to turbo size, should I go with a T3 super 60 or a regular t3/t4?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
Quaalude22SE said:
Thats what I thought.

What exactly are the main differences between the VAFC and Uberdata tuning wise for boost aplications? I know they both can adjust air/fuel ratios but what makes Uberdata better for boost?

I definatly do not have the $ to build the engine, so thats out of the question. I think ill probably just go with a chipped ECU from phearable.net and have it tuned via uberdata.

The reason the tuner said he can make more power with the Apexi AFC is becasue he had some kid come in with a turbo F20 accord that had been tuned via Uberdata that was making 185 whp and he tuned it with the AFC and made 210 whp and its been running great ever since. He's mainly a sr20 guy (he has tons of them at the shop, he even started up a Skyline front clip via a battery pack so we could hear it...it sounded badass!) so I dont think that he knows what up with Vtec, which is far more complcated to tune.

So back to turbo size, should I go with a T3 super 60 or a regular t3/t4?
well im gunna throw in my 2 cents in .
I wouldnt buy any turbo parts of ebay. thats just me. 2nd uberdata would be better because i think you can change ingition(-+) you cant do that with AFC. I would go with crome anyways. less bugs in. maybe that why he made more power with the AFC. umm thats it. good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,276 Posts
im gonna suggest Crome over uberdata solely because its newer and better. Still free too.

A vafc cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition timing like the crome, hondata, uberdata programs can. ignition adjustments are just effects of tuning the fuel. how? you ask.......well, the vafc is wired into the map sensor and basically tricks the ecu into believe there is more or less air coming into the IM. When you "lean" the engine out (take out fuel), its simply tricking the map sensor into thinking there is an decrease in manifold pressure, therefore decreasing the MAP signal to the ecu and the ecu taking the fuel out and advancing the timing. Its just the opposite for adding fuel.

This is bad for boosted cars because the ignition timing at full boost is what will make or break the engine and you need to have complete control over it.

Also, with crome you have specials plugins you can download if you are boosted. Its called boost tools which allows turbo tuning with those programs that much better. The reason he probably got more power out of a vafc is because its so freaking basic anyone could do it. Crome is not, however, basic. You pretty much have complete control of how the engine operates.

IMO, find another tuner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
SILude_92 said:
Not to jack the thread but has anyone did business with phearable.net ? I need and ecu and their prices seem to be good.
Phearable.net = :tu
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,826 Posts
2.2L said:
im gonna suggest Crome over uberdata solely because its newer and better. Still free too.

A vafc cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition timing like the crome, hondata, uberdata programs can. ignition adjustments are just effects of tuning the fuel. how? you ask.......well, the vafc is wired into the map sensor and basically tricks the ecu into believe there is more or less air coming into the IM. When you "lean" the engine out (take out fuel), its simply tricking the map sensor into thinking there is an decrease in manifold pressure, therefore decreasing the MAP signal to the ecu and the ecu taking the fuel out and advancing the timing. Its just the opposite for adding fuel.

This is bad for boosted cars because the ignition timing at full boost is what will make or break the engine and you need to have complete control over it.

Also, with crome you have specials plugins you can download if you are boosted. Its called boost tools which allows turbo tuning with those programs that much better. The reason he probably got more power out of a vafc is because its so freaking basic anyone could do it. Crome is not, however, basic. You pretty much have complete control of how the engine operates.

IMO, find another tuner.
x2. and like i said before do eveything right the fist time don't half ass it and end up spening more money because you were to lazy to do it right. just be patient and get the money you need for what you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,299 Posts
2.2L said:
im gonna suggest Crome over uberdata solely because its newer and better. Still free too.

A vafc cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition timing like the crome, hondata, uberdata programs can. ignition adjustments are just effects of tuning the fuel. how? you ask.......well, the vafc is wired into the map sensor and basically tricks the ecu into believe there is more or less air coming into the IM. When you "lean" the engine out (take out fuel), its simply tricking the map sensor into thinking there is an decrease in manifold pressure, therefore decreasing the MAP signal to the ecu and the ecu taking the fuel out and advancing the timing. Its just the opposite for adding fuel.

This is bad for boosted cars because the ignition timing at full boost is what will make or break the engine and you need to have complete control over it.

Also, with crome you have specials plugins you can download if you are boosted. Its called boost tools which allows turbo tuning with those programs that much better. The reason he probably got more power out of a vafc is because its so freaking basic anyone could do it. Crome is not, however, basic. You pretty much have complete control of how the engine operates.

IMO, find another tuner.
hey...look at me i cant type better the mr. drivinvtec...blah. thats what i sad in a nut shell....kinda :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
2.2L said:
im gonna suggest Crome over uberdata solely because its newer and better. Still free too.

A vafc cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition timing like the crome, hondata, uberdata programs can. ignition adjustments are just effects of tuning the fuel. how? you ask.......well, the vafc is wired into the map sensor and basically tricks the ecu into believe there is more or less air coming into the IM. When you "lean" the engine out (take out fuel), its simply tricking the map sensor into thinking there is an decrease in manifold pressure, therefore decreasing the MAP signal to the ecu and the ecu taking the fuel out and advancing the timing. Its just the opposite for adding fuel.

This is bad for boosted cars because the ignition timing at full boost is what will make or break the engine and you need to have complete control over it.
Thats exactly what I wanted to know, thanks :number1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,763 Posts
Your basically gonan have spend all the money on the turbo setup .. but you wont even be able to increase boost much beyond factory pressures since your not building the motor.. its like you have a turbo .. but your not able to use it ..

If it was me id get head work and and call it a day .. screw the turbo .. If i was to turbo a honda motor .. Im probably spending somewhere around $10,000 between having the block prepped, turbo cams and valve train, a good turbo kit, fuel upgrades, ect ..

Your only as good as your WEAKEST LINK .. does this sound familiar? Ok .. so you have a turbo bolted up .. but the entire engine IS THE WEAK LINK.. you have a turbo .. but you CANT USE IT.

HONDA ENGINES ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR TURBO .. but with enough internal work .. you can get it turbo ready .. unfortunately youll prob. have to find out the hard way link everyone else and go through 2 motors.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,826 Posts
TOP END MS said:
Your basically gonan have spend all the money on the turbo setup .. but you wont even be able to increase boost much beyond factory pressures since your not building the motor.. its like you have a turbo .. but your not able to use it ..

If it was me id get head work and and call it a day .. screw the turbo .. If i was to turbo a honda motor .. Im probably spending somewhere around $10,000 between having the block prepped, turbo cams and valve train, a good turbo kit, fuel upgrades, ect ..

Your only as good as your WEAKEST LINK .. does this sound familiar? Ok .. so you have a turbo bolted up .. but the entire engine IS THE WEAK LINK.. you have a turbo .. but you CANT USE IT.

HONDA ENGINES ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR TURBO .. but with enough internal work .. you can get it turbo ready .. unfortunately youll prob. have to find out the hard way link everyone else and go through 2 motors.


my point exactly. you think you'll be happy with a measly 7 psi but believe me you'll want morethan that. the boost bug lives in us all and pulls us to the darkside :ninja . do it right the first time we are only looking out for you. but if you do this how you plan and you're motor takes a shit we will have no sympathy for you. do it right the frist time please. :hug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Im sure as long as I get a good setup and a good tune my motor should be fine at 7psi. Ill take it to someone who knows what theyre doing.

It will be plenty of power for me, my super long geared m2j5 tranny is just begging for a little boost. Though im sure Ill want more later down the road, but by then if my motor does start to take a shit, i can always rebuild with turbo pistons and run all the boost I want.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,826 Posts
Quaalude22SE said:
Im sure as long as I get a good setup and a good tune my motor should be fine at 7psi. Ill take it to someone who knows what theyre doing.

It will be plenty of power for me, my super long geared m2j5 tranny is just begging for a little boost. Though im sure Ill want more later down the road, but by then if my motor does start to take a shit, i can always rebuild with turbo pistons and run all the boost I want.
hey it's your money and we didn't say it couldn't be done. you're just being impatient and we would hate for you to waste your money or blow up your money
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top