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Discussion Starter #21
Hp per liter is meaningless, but tq per liter is not. All you need for more hp is to spin faster, getting torque without using gearing is much more difficult at a set displacement.
Yes, and that is high end engineering, lets see your engine spin at only 20 000rpms.

Simply put: my view is it matters only if you have all the numbers to compare the engines to each other. Then Hp/TQ produced per X ammount of displacement matters.
Well in most cases you do, and HP/TQ produced per X amount of displacement is HP/TQ per liter (liters being my units of displacement).

My favorite example is the Rx8's renesis engine vs the subi wrx's ej20T the RX's makes a LOT more hp, however its tq sucks balls.
HP is what wins races. An F1 engine will produce a litter more Tq than your car. HP is the ability to do work over time. if you have more hp than another engine, than you can perform more work in a given amount of time. No matter what engine, if you are racing, you would drive it around your peak hp band, this could be away from whare you make the most tq. When you aer pulling in your accord, you dont hover at whare you make peak tq do you??? naw you feel it at peak HP.

The other thing I don't get with that car is that it has a twin disc clutch setup for a small engine that doesn't need that kind of tq handling capacity.
maybe its just to put up with racing all day?:confused

Both HP and TQ per displacement is an engineering feat and means a lot. Every efficiency that there is in designing an engine will directly affect hp/tq per liter.

Thermal Efficiency
Combustion Efficiency
Volumetric Efficiency
Mechanical Efficiency

These Efficiencies have a direct result on your BMEP, BSFC, and so on yada yada.

So if HP per liter doesnt mean anything, than you are stating those stated efficiencies are non relevant to engine design in terms of performance. Torque is important for sure, but Torque is just a result of displacement. For sure the stated efficiencies will effect torque as well but most engines can get close to a full cylinder charge at some-point which would be where they make most torque, what changes how much torque they make, will depend on how big that cylinder is.

I think that both HP and TQ produced per liter is amazing and the whole reason why I like engines but I also believe that HP per liter is more of something to be proud of as an engine designer because it probably means that you have designed an engine that can spin real fast and breathe at those higher rpms.

It is just matter of opinions but to state that HP per liter doesnt mean anything is just looney.
 

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hp/liter only matters if you have a big motor..........like a 3 liter making 300 hp is nice...a 1.8 liter making 180 hp is slow....and where do you make your hp and for how long matters as well...if you're not making it until 7600 rpms and it only lasts for 1200 rpms who the hell cares
 

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Hp/liter is also only practical in race cars that spend their life at high rpm. Even at that, sure it may make tons of power up high, but how long does it take it to reach that? I suppose in circle track racing where you have plenty of time to build speed, yeah, hp is whats gonna win it for you, but almost every other type of racing, torque and a decent power band are important.
 

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Yes, and that is high end engineering, lets see your engine spin at only 20 000rpms.
My engine doesn't have a stroke of 40mm so despite the best engineering that rpm is just not possible. Thus its also why their torque is very small- much like that of a normal production car- An F1's stroke is obscenely small which lowers the mean piston speed greatly.

Also they use pneumatics to open and close their valves. As for engineering feats? I've accidently mis-shifted my Accord from 3rd gear @ redline to 2nd , which gives my rpms in 2nd around 8.5k rpm maybe up to 9k. My pistons were traveling close to F1 speeds at that point. 2nd gear in my car is almost exactly 1k rpm per 10 mph- i was traveling at 85-90mph when I dropped into 2nd instead of 4th lol

95mm stroke 9k rpm you do the math ;)




HP is what wins races.
lol tell that to audi with their turbo diesel, simply put similar hp rated engines with one having more tq, the engine with more twisting force rapes the one with slightly higher hp.

When you aer pulling in your accord, you dont hover at whare you make peak tq do you??? naw you feel it at peak HP.
Well not really, it has the best delivered "push"(torque) before it ever makes its peak hp. I wouldn't be able to "hover" at peak torque anyways, I don't have a CVT.



Both HP and TQ per displacement is an engineering feat and means a lot. Every efficiency that there is in designing an engine will directly affect hp/tq per liter.

Thermal Efficiency
Combustion Efficiency
Volumetric Efficiency
Mechanical Efficiency

These Efficiencies have a direct result on your BMEP, BSFC, and so on yada yada.

So if HP per liter doesnt mean anything, than you are stating those stated efficiencies are non relevant to engine design in terms of performance. Torque is important for sure, but Torque is just a result of displacement. For sure the stated efficiencies will effect torque as well but most engines can get close to a full cylinder charge at some-point which would be where they make most torque, what changes how much torque they make, will depend on how big that cylinder is.

I think that both HP and TQ produced per liter is amazing and the whole reason why I like engines but I also believe that HP per liter is more of something to be proud of as an engine designer because it probably means that you have designed an engine that can spin real fast and breathe at those higher rpms.

It is just matter of opinions but to state that HP per liter doesnt mean anything is just looney.
I didn't say that, however you did a few posts ago, well- if someone paraphrased your comment thats the meaning here:

well that means dick all, why even care about hp/tq per liter. meaningless.
Displacement doesn't always mean more torque. A longer stroke/smaller piston over a shorter stroke and bigger piston will make more torque with displacement and compression ratios the same. Thats the basics of leverage.

Which is why I say hp/liter is crap without knowing everything else about the engine(s) your talking about. Without knowing an engines geometry and a good base of geometry from other engines with similar statistics for specified power output you can't really comment on an engines performance characteristics.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
cool.



your accord will do 90mph in 3rd??? I think my teg at redline will do like 84 at best. thats redline of around 7000. What is your redline and what is your 3rd gear ratio? mine is 1.269 supposedly.
 

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the GSR would do about 30mph a gear aswell. being in 3rd and doing 90 sounds about right.
 

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cool.



your accord will do 90mph in 3rd??? I think my teg at redline will do like 84 at best. thats redline of around 7000. What is your redline and what is your 3rd gear ratio? mine is 1.269 supposedly.
Redline of 6200 fuel/ignition cut of 6500 RPM max power stock is made at 5500 I believe. I have some breather mods so it doesn't really die out till 6k now. Since my car is geared so low getting the redline a lil higher helps me be in a better rpm when I upshift, but in a hurting if I mis-shift lol.

I'll have to look up the gear ratios and shit again.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Redline of 6200 fuel/ignition cut of 6500 RPM max power stock is made at 5500 I believe. I have some breather mods so it doesn't really die out till 6k now. Since my car is geared so low getting the redline a lil higher helps me be in a better rpm when I upshift, but in a hurting if I mis-shift lol.

I'll have to look up the gear ratios and shit again.
so wait, low gearing is long gears??? I for some reason never remember that.
 

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hp/liter is about as useful as dating a hot nun.....or enjoying a poopie flavored lollipop
 

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I know the thread is old, but here's my 2 cents.

The builders are wasting too much money for this car with the motor they are using. If you are trying for stock car, why not go with a C32A (or is it B) motor, The NSX motor is more built for that. Even the new motor from the RL would do better, and its making higher numbers stock than the NSX motor. Honda even makes F1 motors, that would blow the competition away right there. Each can be hand and or built a lot better than that B18 can.

As a Honda owner and enthusiast, I am sadly disappointed at this attempt. Not because it's stock car, but because they could have done so so so so so so so much better. It's all show, and sounds like every other 250whp B series out there with no exhaust. I mean look at the mugen valve cover, and power steering.

As Neil Patrick Harris would say, "It's just an EPIC... wait for it... FAIL!!!"
 

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cool.



your accord will do 90mph in 3rd??? I think my teg at redline will do like 84 at best. thats redline of around 7000. What is your redline and what is your 3rd gear ratio? mine is 1.269 supposedly.

the d series transmission will see 99 mph in 3rd and like 65 in 2nd 6800rpm on the y7
 
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