[Mountain-man]

After reading all the horror stories about PWJDM's intake and the back-beaking installation required, I figured I could do better. I thought "hey, these people aren't following directions, or are tightening things down before everything is lined up.....well, after 10 hours worth of install, I found out I was wrong. :banghead:

It had to do some modification to the intake in addition to doing some extra work with the car in order to get the darn thing to fit, but I eventually got it in. Removing the left mounting bracket for the scoop helped get the hood to lock shut, and also angled the mounting brackets forward a bit, and put in a three-washer-thick spacer in the back to tip the intake a little. And it STILL doesn't fit all that great. The hood latch is moved up as far as it'll go, and I have to force the hood to lock shut. The hood sticks up just a little, so it's not as flush as it once was. I'm contemplating cutting the hood or trying to dent in the troublesome spot. Since it's hitting in one specific location, I know where to give it a few whacks.

Did some extra cutting on the radiator plate to expose my Spoon certification plaque. Not quite perfectly square, but pretty darn close.

 

[Mountain-man]

What on earth, That is some serious kit!
But why not email the maker and tell them it fits like shit. . Maybe ask them why or if there is something wrong, would hate to see you disfigure your car for the intake

I've already talked to them twice. They know it is troublesome to get to fit right. I knew it was troublesome to get to fit right before I bought it. In fact, they even have a line in the directions saying "OK, so that was a total pain in the @$$, but worth it." Most

The first guy I talked to sounded pretty concerned about the fitment condition of mating parts, but the second guy gave me a whole slew of "California Excuses" (nothing against California, BTW) and was telling me they could send me another part, but it wouldn't do me any good as the new part would fit like the current one. It's one of the cheapest full dry-carbon intake kits out there. The Mugen and ASM both require hood cutting and cost between $2,000 and $4,000. And this one supposedly performs just as good as those for roughly $1,000. I did more "disfiguring" to the intake moreso than the car. A lot of people cut the hood a little to allow more clearance, which may be the final option, because I don't like it hitting, or the amount of pressure it's placing on the hood, or the fact that the hood is no longer flush.

The modifications I made to the intake were mostly fastening points that were not lining up. A little drumel work and I was fine. But they did not false advertise by saying that no hood cutting was required. Stuff that I had to do to the car that was not in the directions was pretty much limited to relocating a wire harness to the inside of the radiator mounting frame, and carefully bending some AC lines in the front to make more room for the huge scoop that sits down in front. (no pics of that yet). I also removed one of the scoops mounting brackets in order to shove the whole snorkel over to the right (as facing the front of the car) to allow better fitment. This worked for others, and it worked for me.

For $1,000, a lot of people expect perfect fitment, and I the same. But figuring in material, development, and labor costs for something like this seems rather reasonable. Just wish the fitment was better engineered. And I KNOW they can do better with the mating parts.

Performance wise, the intake is supposed to grant 12 hp max, which is outstanding for an intake on this car, and worthy of further scrutiny. Does it perform? I have yet to dyno my car, with the header and exhaust on it, so I don't know where my car would sit baseline. It certainly feels better especially mid-range, and revs better. And the change in sound is pretty cool.

One more note is that this thing is ultra-light weight.

 

[Mountain-man]

anyways back on topic, looks good mountain-man. post up when you get the spoon coilovers installed

They are installed. I have a crappy cell-phone pic in the "just arrived" thread.
No new pics for this week, as its either raining (or snowing, as it was a few hours ago. :mad ) or just plain crappy of a day.

The intake is not for everyone. If I went FI, it would wind up costing me about $8,000-$10,000 for 100-150 HP depending on the kit and tune. That would also include other drive-train upgrades. (I looked into it just prior to me wrecking my old car. No, I wouldn't just buy a kit and throw it in. I'm a firm believer in doing things right.)

Cams are a very bad idea on this car unless you go with something specific for FI. I looked into cams a while ago before the intake, and most people have issues with the valves smacking the pistons. And I may be mistaken, but an EMS might be required for tune as well.

Trying to unlock ANYTHING NA on this car is EXTREMELY difficult. The next option for me would be to make it illegal to drive and throw a test-pipe on for a good bang-for-buck purchase. Otherwise it's Hondata K-pro. $1,300+ with other part modifications required to be purchased. ITBs are good for HP and sound, but they require K-pro or AEM ems, and also cost more than the intake I bought. SO! In summery, after the research I did, this intake was the best for the money for looks, power, and weight.

When this engine comes time for a rebuild, then I'll do a hybrid F20-F22 build that I found out about. Seemed like a pretty sweet setup.

 

[Mountain-man]

looks sick. glad i saw this thread, i was considering buying the same intake..

There are some good install writeups on S2ki. I don't have the links, but I know they are there because I found them there. Got a few pointers on the install, and how to make things work.

But yeah, it was a total pain to install. Everything goes perfectly fine until you try to close the hood. Then all hell breaks loose and you spend the next half of your install time trying to get that little bit to work. Or you could cut the hood to allow for extra clearance. You don't cut ALL the way through, just the inner panel.

 

[Mountain-man]

^^^

Drivetrain upgrades included a built differential (the diff in the AP1 is like the Achilles heel of the car) and an upgraded clutch and pressure plate. Was also going to upgrade the flywheel as well. Did I NEED those upgrades? No, I could go with the plug it in and go method, and many people do it that way and are fine. But it makes the drivability of the car really poor. The Comptech SC kit doesn't even have you upgrade the injectors, and in their case, you're running your stock injectors at near 100% duty cycle under full throttle close to the 9k redline. 100% duty cycle will potentially wreak havoc on the engine.
If I got a standalone, it'd be K-Pro. I used to think AEM EMS, but since K-pro came out that got moved to top spot. I'd need to upgrade to a AP2 V2 valve cover for the cam sensor and a new AP2 crank pulley for another sensor for K-pro, but the better tunability translates into more power and better drivability. Drivability is key to enjoying the car. I've looked into something like a VAFC, but the poor tunability due to the lack of tuning points is likely to make things worse.

A standalone ECU is not out of the question for a future upgrade.... just don't know when I want to invest yet another $2,000+ into the car. Yes it would unlock more power, but I'm not sure how much with my intake/exhaust combo. I've already put in an insane amount in the interior conversion, suspension, wheels, brakes, exhaust.... and I still have my front lip (LED project V2) and side skirts to put on.

 

[Mountain-man]

mega squirt is not a VAFC but a full standalone ecu with the same tuneability as Kpro for far less. but its not a plug and play option like kpro you have to wire it in. its tried and true and many people have used it on some big hp builds. alot of honda owners don't know of it cause you can chip the ecu and tune, vw owners just go with ms and call it a day since its cost effective over chipping an ecu and tuning. heres a site for ms * *MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling & Grippo * * you can also find them preassembled for around 500 for the newest board. you could spend another 200 on different odds and ends another 500 on tuning and still be under what a kpro would cost. you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get it done right.

would defenitely not stay with stock injectors if they are that close to 100% at redline. but I wouldn't think you need anything too much bigger. just something that will put you at 85-90% duty at redline.

Cool! Thanks for the link. I don't think I need new injectors with just an intake. I was referring that some people use the stock injectors when installing a comptech SC kit as per instructions. The KraftWerks U-tune high-boost is the new hotness right now, but freakishly expensive. A couple guys locally have one in their S2k. Had I wanted to, I could have bought an Vortech with aftercooler for about $2,000 and did the install myself. But It presented a lot of other variables that I didn't like. I was going to do it, but I wrecked my old car a couple days before I bought the kit. I wanted to do things differently with this one, which is why I went the route that I did.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think with the standard boost Comptech/Vortech SC, 750 injectors is suitable. I seem to recall looking up 1k injectors for my SC build when I had my old car.

And yes, referring to Duder's earlier post, along with a built diff, a lot of people change the final gearing as a torque multiplier. I don't care for that as I do a lot of highway driving. When you're cruising at 75 and your RPMs are at 4500-5000, and shifting earlier isnt as fun either.

Yes it does sound cool. I don't have any vids though. I'll try to get one up sometime soon, though my camera is old and the video function is kinda lousy. And I definitely want to get a dyno done to see what the car is doing. I'll post results when I get them.

Thanks for the good comments guys! Despite the obvious nasty price.

P.S. I found a guy who might be able to change the form of my hood-frame so it no longer hits the snorkel and make it look like it came from the factory that way. If that goes through, I'll be sure to post up that info as well.

 

[Mountain-man]

^^^ I'm seeing between 360-380. Not 100% certain.

 

[Mountain-man]

intake:

A) looks awesome
B)price sucks ass
C) did I mention it looks awesome?

for a grand, I would gone another route,. but props. I bet it sounds pretty mean!

youtube vid or ban

Yeah, price sucks donkey balls.
Took some better pics today, so I'll post those up in the official pics thread.

Here's a vid I took earlier today. Audio quality from my camera kinda sucks, and the subtle differences from before and after the intake might not be distinguishable on the vid, but here it is anyway. 3rd gear pull with top up.

 

[Mountain-man]

Might as well post the better intake pics here too.

And a few other ones for good measure.

 

[Mountain-man]

I'm surprised with constant issues popping up about fitment, pw:jdm hasn't fixed the problem...
looks nice though ;]

I got the impression that they are stubborn and they are making excuses. "We made it, so we know better than you. You just aren't doing a good enough job on the install. This is DRY carbon, that's that hardest to work with over wet carbon...." the list goes on. The intake engineering seems to be pretty good, but the fitment engineering is lousy. I have thought of ways to help solve some of their problems. Not sure if they care.

I'm worried about the engine overheating too. The intake scoop blocks about 2/3 of the radiator and AC condenser. (you can see it in one of the pics) They could easily attain the same volume of air getting crammed into that thing by raising the scoop and changing the geometry, while allowing more air to flow into the radiator. I've been keeping a close eye on the engine temp gauge for a while now. But the air temps have been pretty cool here. So the big test will be in July and August when it can get up to around 100 or so.

If the car starts to overheat, then the intake has got to come out. And PWJDM will hear about it.

 

[Mountain-man]

wow... you would actually disfigure the car for the intake.... id say sell that shit... and get something else... i wouldnt be caught dead with that if i spent that much money just to find out the fitment was like crap..


if it was me... for a grand... i would have opted for ARC... but to each his own.. i mean the fitment is really getting to me ... -_-... denting the hood for fitment ? for a grand... you shouldnt have to do this

im going to put money on the carbon cracking due to stress and pressure from the hood.... think ive seen it happen before...

The "dent" is hardly noticeable. It made a difference, but not as much as I hoped. The intake is there to stay unless I notice some overheating issues. Then "pissed off" would be an understatement.

Right now, that angled ridge on the hood where the intake sits in was pushed in maybe about 1/8 inch, if that. Any more and it WOULD disfigure the hood. But as it is right now, the car is not "disfigured" in any way. I did more junk to the rear bumper and fenders to keep the tires from rubbing after I lowered it.

Would you consider fender rolling "disfiguring" the car to get wheel/tire to fit? How about trimming the bumper-flange in the rear wheel well? Both were done cleanly, and unless you are really looking for it and compare it to unmodified stock, you wouldn't notice. Same as the hood. I'm not going to cut the hood for this. That WOULD be disfiguring.

But yeah, *sigh*, the intake has proven to be more trouble than it's worth fitment-wise. Performance wise, has yet to be proven, but it certainly feels more powerful.