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Discussion Starter #1
I finally got my autometer gauges installed in my 96 CX. Installed were Fuel pressure, oil pressure and AFR. I'm running a D16Y8 that's rebuilt with 10.5:1 CR. Anybody have readings that I could compare to, I'm mostly concerned with oil pressure and AFR when floored. My oil is 75-105. 75 normal driving and jumps up after about 4K rpm's. Didn't know if this was normal pressure or the fact that I had the bearings drilled slightly really helped. Also the AFR usually only goes two bars into the rich when it's floored. Occasionally 1-2 more and seems to run alot better when it's more into the rich.
 

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a/f gauge

are you running a wideband o2??.........if not that gauge is not serving as anything more than a light show........without a wideband it will be inaccurate :rolleyes
 

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ek9wannabe said:
are you running a wideband o2??.........if not that gauge is not serving as anything more than a light show........without a wideband it will be inaccurate :rolleyes
not inaccurate, should never tune with one but they are good for a rough guess and quick glances. Like a problem I have at 2-3K rpm's where going from closed loop to open by a quick partial jab to the throttle the car goes dead lean for some reason takes flooring it or waiting about 15 seconds untill it starts going again, then the gauge hits in the upper part of stoich at the same time the cars jerks as the engine starts trying again. So stupid things like this the gauge is great for. So like I said they are good for kinda 5 readings little/alot rich/lean and in the middle. I'm getting little rich thinking I need alot rich. And it's a brand new O2 sensor.
 

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brusk said:
not inaccurate, should never tune with one but they are good for a rough guess and quick glances. Like a problem I have at 2-3K rpm's where going from closed loop to open by a quick partial jab to the throttle the car goes dead lean for some reason takes flooring it or waiting about 15 seconds untill it starts going again, then the gauge hits in the upper part of stoich at the same time the cars jerks as the engine starts trying again. So stupid things like this the gauge is great for. So like I said they are good for kinda 5 readings little/alot rich/lean and in the middle. I'm getting little rich thinking I need alot rich. And it's a brand new O2 sensor.
No, they are good to see if your o2 is getting lazy or not, other than that they are just annoying. All you are seeing is that your o2 is switching from lean to rich like it is sopose to. They designed them for ricers, thats why they are flashy with all the lights.
You oil pressure is up there but that isn't really bad as long as your not blowing up oil filters :bomb
 

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stock o2 sensors read from 0-1v.. widebands go from 0-5v so it has an acurate reading.. Why else do they use widebands to tune cars and not stock o2 sensors. So basically, the gauge is useless.. It does tell you when youre going from open to closed loop.. thats it. It looks cool at night. thats why i have one :hehe
 

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Narrow bands are useless - unless you like a flashing light on your dash to get you pulled over. So I guess if you want a ticket they aren't useless. A wideband has a real purpose to be installed. It's like going to computer class with your XBOX instead of a laptop. Are they both computers? Yes. Can you actually use both of them to be productive? No. Why? Because one was designed to be used for FUN the other was designed to be used for BUSSINESS.
Buy a narrow band for FUN. Buy a wideband for BUSSINESS. Which side of the fence are you on?
HENRY
 
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obviously they are not completely useless or the ecu's would not use them. it's all about detail. I'm not trying to make a 12 second ride here. Trust be when you drive a mid 15 second car the o2 signal is plenty usefull. Maybe not to tune from 12.8:1 to 12.5:1 AFR but from 14:1 to 13:1 sure. I'm definately not saying to tune a boosted car with one but to fix minor "slightly over stock" mods sure. What the hell did you guys do when wide band wasn't an option, the same damn thing. You know before people bought these damn things for light shows they were bought to try to figure out what the ECU was seein. Increase fuel a few more bars and that will help things, yeah the bars don't quite match up to a perfect AFR but they give a decent description going on. If they didn't cars wouldn't use them. Do you really thing in the days of emmisions and OBDII crap where the gas tank doesn't have the right pressure they would still use useless crap. where a secondary O2 costs 200 bucks. Damn if all I wanted was usless crap I'd go to honda tech .com. A little help would be usefull thats why I bought a damn civic all I got was help from crx owners not a bunch of crap.
 

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brusk said:
obviously they are not completely useless or the ecu's would not use them.
Ok we are talking about using a gauge to see what your o2 is sending to the ecu, heres the problem. Your o2 sensor is made it send a signal to the ecu for it to read, not for you to read. This signal is switching back and forth and it is not designed for a human to look at and go oh my car is running lean. I know a guy who tried to use one of these to tune his car, he also tried putting springs from another brand of car on this car. He thought that is was lean because when it switched back and forth it spent more time on the lean side. So he asked me if he unpluged his o2 sensor if it would run richer, I didn't ask why because I already knew what was going on with him so I told him to go buy a couple of resistors and put inline with his IAT sensor. So he did, and he is a jack ass. Please try to listen to what we are tring to help you with, don't be a jack ass :D
And people used a thing called a 4-gas before the wide band o2 was used.
 

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ATISTANG said:
Ok we are talking about using a gauge to see what your o2 is sending to the ecu, heres the problem. Your o2 sensor is made it send a signal to the ecu for it to read, not for you to read. This signal is switching back and forth and it is not designed for a human to look at and go oh my car is running lean. I know a guy who tried to use one of these to tune his car, he also tried putting springs from another brand of car on this car. He thought that is was lean because when it switched back and forth it spent more time on the lean side. So he asked me if he unpluged his o2 sensor if it would run richer, I didn't ask why because I already knew what was going on with him so I told him to go buy a couple of resistors and put inline with his IAT sensor. So he did, and he is a jack ass. Please try to listen to what we are tring to help you with, don't be a jack ass :D
And people used a thing called a 4-gas before the wide band o2 was used.


ok that's just it I don't care about when it's moving back and forth. One of the problems I've having is between 2-3K rpm's it has like absolutely no power when I push the gas a little to go, looking at the guage I know it's lean cause it's off the scale on lean for like 15-30 seconds not just a few. And when floored cause I have CX gears that go to 70+ in 2nd i obviously have alot of time to to see it's only slightly in the rich, after seeing AFR's in several other cars I've noticed that it's normally high on the rich side. So not fine tuning but rough tuning I can see that it probably should have more fuel. Yes a wideband would be better but most dyno's won't use that anyway and if I want or had a way to tune it than a wideband I would have probably bought. Ok that said I just wanted to know again if it should probably be really rich side not just a little rich. and I'm not trying to be a jack ass but when you have this much time and money spent on a stupid friggin engine you get a little upset and wonder why you didn't buy a better stupid car.
 

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point is, the wideband is used to tune the fuel maps.. the function of the oem o2 sensor is to target 14.7:1. Having a gauge doesnt change anything. Once the ecu is reading off the maps, the gauge goes into the rich portion because its no longer reading off the sensor but from the maps programmed into the ecu. theres no way to change the closed loop operation, its function is to target a specific a/f ratio for optimum power/gas efficiency.
 

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Ok stop looking at the gauge for a min.
Now what all does this engine have done?
Any head work? cam?
anything else?
super charged, turbo?
any bolt on's?
Just let us know what all you have done and be more descriptive of what your problem is.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ATISTANG said:
Ok stop looking at the gauge for a min.
Now what all does this engine have done?
Any head work? cam?
anything else?
super charged, turbo?
any bolt on's?
Just let us know what all you have done and be more descriptive of what your problem is.
Ok Built bottom end on d16y8
eagle rods, srp 10.5:1 CR pistons, balanced, bearing drilled slightly, arp head studs, ACT 12 lb flywheel and clutch, header, no cat, catback, skunk2 intake mani, hondata mani gasket, 65mm throttle body (currently off car needs TPS adjusted) cold air intake, AEM adj cam gear currently adjusted +1.5, ngk wires and tune up parts new, walbro 190lph fuel pump, OBX fuel rail. I have an MSD SCC ignition for it as soon as I get time to mount it also. Running on stock CX tranny in a 96 CX and 97 Y8 ecu. The tranny sucks but it's not that bad. Track isn't open yet so not sure what it runs but feels like, and compared to what I've raced about a 15.9 second ride which sucks for all the crap I have done.

Things it's doing, doesn't feel like it pulls hardly at all that's why i was looking at the guage everytime it feels like its trying to guage reads richer than normal. It runs on slightly better than the stock Y7 engine with just I/H/E. It has a really nasty hesitation 2-3K rpms when going from close loop to open without flooring it. The vtec doesn't engine, I've used a test light to verify this but the check engine light is on due to a evap code, the stupid pressure sensor on top of the charcoal canister. Not extremely worried about that if the car would run right the rest of the time. Some days it feels like it wants to go a little other days it feels like it's struggling.

So what do you think, I bought fuel, oil and afr gauges to try to help me troubleshoot these problems. As soon as I sell my townhouse in a few months if these it's running better I'm gonna low boost turbo it and get a hondata ecu so I don't have to worry about these stupid CEL's and hesitations. After that I'm sending it out for head work, the full deal then I'd better be happy with it.
 

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One thing even if it was runnign right that trans is going to make anything feel slow unless your are using a power adder, that raise in compression doesn't give you as much power as you probably think, the intake manifold and tb are not going to help much without any head work or at least a cam. Your problem sounds more like somethings wrong, not a tuning issue, pretty much I suggest you go over any wiring that you or anyone has messed with sense the problem and also a tps sweep would be a good idea, if you have a spare dizzy swap it with the one you are using now and see what happends. I think if you keep tring to do things to mess with your a/f ratio you will be chasing your tail at this point. For what you have done your stock ecu should be able to adjust for, I would also double check your ign timing.
Also I'm not sure what you are talking about with it going from closed to open loop, once it warms up it should be in closed loop till you shut the car down, other wise you have a problem somewhere.
 

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without a way to tune the a/f maps the advanced timing is going to be offset by the ecu...

another thing is you said you have a CEL... don't start with what you think may be wrong, fix the code. when you throw a CEL, vtec won't engage. if you're running in limp mode because of that, then the car will feel like ass.

get rid of the CEL, then see whats left that needs fixing.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
thats just it it's only an evap code. I've put a scan tool on and that's the only code. Ignition is set to stock + 2 advanced. I don't wanna spend money on something that isn't important. And the only time a car is in closed loop mode is while cruising. Idle, floored, totaly off throttle while driving, and jabbing the throttle slightly will move from close loop to reading from the stored maps. So when looking at an AFR gauge you will see it go from the nice light show to staying at one area for awhile till you go back to cruising. Like I said the engine ran almost this fast with just I/H/E. This is why I keep going back to the AFR cause floored except for vtec engaging the computer should just be reading the maps and untill the vtec should kick in it should feel pretty good. And if you've ever been in peoples cars with the "light show" gauge everytime i've ever seen one working it was always all the way on the rich like the last light or two. Mine only goes two into rich and the occasion that it goes farther it runs better. Yeah the tranny is gonna hurt it but not that damn much.

But ok lets troubleshoot. Other than replacing that stupid pressure sensor what else can I do? Like I said in a few months I'm replacing the ECU with a hondata S-300 setup. Then since it's OBD-I there is no sensor for that needed.
 

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Ok I think I made a little progress on this. I installed an AEM fuel pressure regulator. At first the AFR showed 1-2 bars more than before into the rich so now it was about half way through the rich part. Seemed to run a little better but nothing special. After about 30 minutes it would go back to where it previously was so somehow the ecu compensated for this. Not sure of the exact fuel pressure as my gauge took a shit and I'm waiting on another one. That was Friday. Today going to the airport for work I noticed it had alot more pickup and was running pretty smooth. Looked down and the AFR was showing toward the richer part of rich. 5 minutes later I could start hearing the intake when I floored it. A few more minutes of playing around and the vtec started kicking in and it started running really good. Then the fuel started to only go half way up the rich but the vtec was still kicking in. I don't understand what the hell it's doing and why. Had this engine in for like 5K miles and the vtec has never kicked in till today, does the ECU look at the fuel mixture too for this?
 
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