[Psikoticjed1]

of course you could take out a *stock* hatch ...they're all slow compared to accords until you throw in a b series motor in, then the hatch is all over the accord.

yea im kinda scared runnin hatch backs... you never know whats in them n shiet.. fuckin engine swaps are done left and right now and days.. ima victim of a b16..

i just saw a hatch with an exhaust... fuckin sleeper...

 

[showgunz]

I have to disagree with you on this one. SOHC means Single and DOHC means dual overhead cams.

Also, the cam lobes can be agressive for both SOHC and DOHC. I see no reason why they cant be the same. Think harder about why DOHC has an advantage over SOHC and get back to us on this one. (If you still cant figure it out, I'll tell you)

Well, obviously with one cam, you can't aggressively tune both the operation of intake and exhaust valves of an engine as with two cams. With one cam, you control both the intake and exhaust valve operation with that one cam. But with double cams (DOHC), one cam will operate the intake valves while the other cam will operate the exhaust valves. Do you see the point already? With SOHC, you can't vary the lobe profile of intake and exhaust valves too much because of performance/reliability/fuel efficiency/emissions reasons. It's a compromise. A camshaft has limited amount of space for lobes and with both intake and exhaust valve lobes on one cam, you can't do too much with it.

Plus, VTEC works better on DOHC engines by allowing the change of exhaust valve operation as well as intake valve operation. On SOHC VTEC engines, the exhaust valve operation doesn't change regardless of engine speed (RPM) because there is only one cam lobe profile for the exhaust valves. See where this can play a role? DOHC VTEC engines are inherently more tunable.

 

[showgunz]

I'll give you some "real" disadvantages of the F23A1:

1. Cost to get big power or speed gains. This is probably one of the biggest reasons. The aftermarket is not plentiful nor cheap and if you get mods, the Accords are heavy to not respond as well as someone would like.
2. Defeats the purpose of an Accord unless if you use this engine in a Civic or lighter vehicle. But then you still have to deal with point no. 1 above.
3. SOHC VTEC built with overall mild tune from factory.
4. Slow to rev. Slow to build power.
5. OBD II and low emissions status prevents mods to fully liberate the engine from becoming high-revving, high-HP engine without FI.
6. The engine isn't cheap to replace in the market, therefore used F23 market is weaker than B or H series.

But some advantages are that these engines are pretty freakin' reliable in terms of block strength. Long gears help the addition of turbo give good performance without frequent shifting. The displacement is big enough to give adequate amount of torque with power adders. It's basically a tough and arduous ordeal to make a F23 fast. So people recommend getting a H22 to have the best bang for buck with good upgrading potential. This is also why people don't recommend getting a manual conversion but rather sell the auto-equipped car and getting a manual-equipped car. It could end up being cheaper plus much less headache than a conversion.

 

[h22apower]

Alot of people drive around with civic's with bolt on's.

 

[silverCoupeLx5s]

efficient? well, its a heavy ass sedan intended to be used as a family car and strives for excellent gas milage.(not dissin them.) So the gears are long and not meant for acceleration.

well, comparing 6gen I4 5sp accord coupe and 'lude i see that accord is just 15kg heavier.

prelude has F/R double wishbones
accord has F/R double wishbones/multilink (essentially, complicated double wishbone)

weight distribution Fr/R:
prelude 63\37
accord 60\40

gear ratios... yes, i don't like ratio difference between 1st and 2nd gears in accord, but 2, 3, 4 and 5 are close enough. prelude has closer ratios netween 1st and 2nd.

this makes accord a good runner at high speeds, but for low speed racing like autoX i would like to have closer ratios for easy 1<->2 switching. right now i accelerate at 1st almost to the red line, switch to the 2nd gear and... forget about the 1st one... it's not an easy task to switch back to the 1st unless you use heel&toe.

but overall, i think accord potentially is a very good car even for racing. just lower it, add rear anti sway bar, change tires.

the engine... yes, it could be better, but especially for me the engine power is not the most important thing if we are not talking about drag racing. i catch more fun from how the car handles, how it stands in turns.

and you buy it for less than prelude. and you don't pay as much insurance premium as for prelude.

regarding the engine... i still run mods free F23. Yes, I will upgrade it later, but right now I feel lack of the aftermarket info/parts for the engine. personally, I'd like to see more dynos at manufacturer's sites. hope this will change. I think, 15-30hp gain would be enough.

 

[jmal1919]

showgunz

you mentioned OBDII. I hear different things about getting a high flow cat will cause my check engine light to come on, but tech support at Magnaflow said that with my car, and their cat, I would not have that problem.


any ideas.

are you sure that my engine has OBDII. If not sure, how do I find that out.

I don't have the SLEV version.

 

[UltraMagneticAL]

showgunz

you mentioned OBDII. I hear different things about getting a high flow cat will cause my check engine light to come on, but tech support at Magnaflow said that with my car, and their cat, I would not have that problem.


any ideas.

are you sure that my engine has OBDII. If not sure, how do I find that out.

I don't have the SLEV version.

preludes and accords above 96 are obd2. as for using magnaflow, i know they're a reputable brand, so i'm sure there's no cel if you put it on.

 

[pwrusr]

I've got an F22 on a 91 lx which means I started at 125 horsepower. I've got a holed-out cat, muffler, cai, header, aem pullies and I've advanced my timing by 3 degrees and I run 93 octane fuel. On top of all this I've got a heavy soundsystem in the trunk.
Ok, here's the deal, this car, with nearly 190,000 miles kicks some serious ass for what it is.
My friends and I occasionally race on a deserted service road at an insurance company. Here are the cars I can consistantly beat, you can make your own judgments from this:

2000 Subaru Imprezea 2.5 RS-mods:muffler

1990 Civic CRX-mods:aem intake, high flow cat, muffler, header

1993 Honda Civic EX-mods:aem cai, header, muffler.

The F22 is worthy. Check out airdynamicracing.com for really cheap parts for the accord.
I got cai, muffler, header for $350.00

If it comes down to it, turbo it or do some gude camshafts.

how loud is the muffler? I may get something like this if it doesn't sound like a weedwacker

 

[showgunz]

showgunz

you mentioned OBDII. I hear different things about getting a high flow cat will cause my check engine light to come on, but tech support at Magnaflow said that with my car, and their cat, I would not have that problem.


any ideas.

are you sure that my engine has OBDII. If not sure, how do I find that out.

I don't have the SLEV version.

I see. If you had the SULEV, I'd think that the cat is specially designed and an aftermarket one would no longer make the car SULEV. So to combat that, Honda would probably make it throw codes if the secondary O2 sensors detect too much free oxygen. But this is my theory and hasn't been confirmed. I'd go with a turbo to get the most bang/$.

 

[TSM_Pikachu]

preludes and accords above 96 are obd2. as for using magnaflow, i know they're a reputable brand, so i'm sure there's no cel if you put it on.

Hey Ultra, clear up something for me real quick here. I thought the 96-97 Accords were OBDII and only the 94-95 were OBDI. Is that right?
Shoooooooot if the 96 is OBDI still i'll go look for that one hahahaah Im lookin for that body style right now and really have no friggin clue wut the diff is between the 94-95 and the 96-97 other than the computer difference, the front end on the 96-97 got a lil wider and the addition of trunk lid lights. Was there changes made to interior room or anything also?

 

[UltraMagneticAL]

Hey Ultra, clear up something for me real quick here. I thought the 96-97 Accords were OBDII and only the 94-95 were OBDI. Is that right?

yes...well...half true....obd1 started in the 4gens. then obd2 came along where you said, in 96-02. i think the 7gens use a new ecu. i don't remember if it's obd2 or something else.

 

[jmal1919]

Ok,

I'm probably not going to change the cat, just get a turbo, and keep my 2.25 cat back exhaust. Everyone says, board members, magnaflow tech, FMAX tech, shops, etc..., it's good to keep the cat to keep a little back pressure, and if I do decide to get a 3" cat back, with a high flow cat, I may not have enough back pressure to keep the car drivable without boosting all the time.


If I'm off, be nice, but thats what I'm thinking I'll do.

 

[showgunz]

Ok,

I'm probably not going to change the cat, just get a turbo, and keep my 2.25 cat back exhaust. Everyone says, board members, magnaflow tech, FMAX tech, shops, etc..., it's good to keep the cat to keep a little back pressure, and if I do decide to get a 3" cat back, with a high flow cat, I may not have enough back pressure to keep the car drivable without boosting all the time.


If I'm off, be nice, but thats what I'm thinking I'll do.

If you ARE going to definitely go turbo, you should get at least 2.75" or bigger. But if you may or may not, 2.5" may be a good compromise. The turbo itself, for the Accord a T3/T4 hybrid, will spool quickly to give you a nice boost at even lower RPM's. So you should have good driveability.

 

[TSM_Pikachu]

Since we're on the damn subject and yes i've read some about the turbo forum and here as well. I understand that Ultra is running a 6th gen accord with h22a and no turbo but some engine mods.

I am gettin an 97 Accord Ex, 5 spd.
Putting 2 subs, mdf box, 2 amps and then engine swap. I am also getting Apexi WS full coilovers because they ride better than stock and I can adjust it to compensate for the "Ass drop" when I put the system in the trunk. I want to have the car on boost and also on a swap. Right now Im bustin around a 91 accord lx auto and love to be able to drive 2nd gear all the way to about 50mph and then drive 3rd into about 70mph. Im guessing this is the long gearing that everyone talks about.
I want to run about 10-12psi of boost on either the h22 or h23.
Help me out and name some parts you think I need to do this. I dont want to bullshit any of the install or piece meal this thing together. I want good ass parts that will last, not cheap shit that will fail. i want t3/t4 turbo and an engine swap, what do you feel is the most effective choice for turbo.
I will be doing 2.25 or 2.50 exhaust piping but then having that exit through a modified dual tip exhaust (Kinda like the stock exhaust dual tips) so that po po dont see a shiny ass can and pull me over. Feedback?!?!

 

[showgunz]

What's your budget though? And do you have good shops around you to put this together for you?

 

[TSM_Pikachu]

Besides the audio system and all the small stuff........for the engine, tranny, turbo, suspension, labor and tuning........the budget will be whatever it needs to be to get things done right the first time. I would really rather spend the money it takes to get the job done right the first time rather than skimp on labor or buy cheap parts that will break or have to be replaced because they are weak. Get the idea? I dont know if im being clear on it.
I dont want to get rip off prices but I do want the right parts for the job, good equipment and piece of mind knowing that everything is in good working order.

I have heard mad shit about OBX, APC, generic stuff on ebay and such to understand that I need to spend some more money and buy some quality parts is what I am saying.
I have heard of endyn for tegs, skunk2 from ultra, I have also been around XS-Engineering, and heard the rave reviews about Tial wg's and hks and greddy bov's. I have heard much praise about h22/h23 engines and also t3/t4 turbos.

Budget for turbo can be saved up for and would probably be in the $3500-4000 range. Engine would probably be around $2000-3000 range and suspension would probably be around $1500 range.
I have shops that I know of and also a friend of mine works with Team Hybrid, Team Blur, and a few other street teams down in San Diego so im sure she could reference a few good shops for me to go to.

 

[pojopoo]

UltraMagneticAL, you seem rather arrogant. not to try to drill a mod er anything, going form 2.3 to 2.0 liters is not going to change anything except his low end, which is going to die off. you already discussed him driving a "boat", so he definitely doesnt need that. and how many rpm's do you expect him to turn? his rod to stroke ratio isnt really going to make a difference, especially in such a lo-po application. i would worry about rod/stroke until 700-800 hp. dohc...interesting. ever hear of a split pattern cam? i have one. its more agressive than any of your DOHC cam pairs. single cams can be very agressive as well, DOHC is just somewhat more efficient. please explain you DOHC "technical reasons"......im interested in them.

yes, all muscle car engines were single "underhead" cam patterns, except for the for sock motor. and there were some nasty ones.

oh, and two heads ARE better than one: as long as theyre each on top of 4 cylinders

 

[showgunz]

Besides the audio system and all the small stuff........for the engine, tranny, turbo, suspension, labor and tuning........the budget will be whatever it needs to be to get things done right the first time. I would really rather spend the money it takes to get the job done right the first time rather than skimp on labor or buy cheap parts that will break or have to be replaced because they are weak. Get the idea? I dont know if im being clear on it.
I dont want to get rip off prices but I do want the right parts for the job, good equipment and piece of mind knowing that everything is in good working order.

I have heard mad shit about OBX, APC, generic stuff on ebay and such to understand that I need to spend some more money and buy some quality parts is what I am saying.
I have heard of endyn for tegs, skunk2 from ultra, I have also been around XS-Engineering, and heard the rave reviews about Tial wg's and hks and greddy bov's. I have heard much praise about h22/h23 engines and also t3/t4 turbos.

Budget for turbo can be saved up for and would probably be in the $3500-4000 range. Engine would probably be around $2000-3000 range and suspension would probably be around $1500 range.
I have shops that I know of and also a friend of mine works with Team Hybrid, Team Blur, and a few other street teams down in San Diego so im sure she could reference a few good shops for me to go to.

I know this is an obvious question but why do you want to start off with an Accord? Any particular reason? If it's for comfort and 4-doors (not sure if you're getting a sedan or coupe or even a wagon), then I'd understand. But for the money, you could probably start off with a Prelude for better gains overall.

And I also don't like to waste money on mods. Hm, you're going to swap a H22/H23 on your 5th gen. Well, I'd get the H23 just on the basis that it has a lower C/R than the H22. But I don't know much about H22 or the H23 other than that JDM versions are built better and have more power. And you may be able to boost 10-12 PSI on stock internals. For the F22/F23, I believe people are boosting around 6-8 PSI on stock internals, in case you're going to keep the F22. Heck, you can do a lot on your car. And there are many turbo 5th gen. owners, so they'd be able to help you better. If you know HT forum, I'd go there for more info. PM me if you don't know that forum.

On suspension, I'd get either Tein, Endless, or JIC coil-overs. Then get Suspension Techniques or Eibach (not sure if they make them for 5th gen.) sway bar kit. Then get front and rear strut bars from Neuspeed. Don't get DC Sports as they'll bend if you apply enough twisting force on your car. After that, your car should handle pretty well. Of course, lower-profile tires will help too.

I'm surprised that you're asking questions on mods when you're a veteran on SHO (from the no. of your posts). Did you have another Honda or something? Anyway, I'm sure many others will be able to help you better. And be sure to check the FAQ sticky. Later.

 

[TSM_Pikachu]

Yea the Accord is for the trunk room, the interior and leg room, comfort and something im familiar with. I'd really jump on the S14 evil eyes platform for butt blinding speed at cheaper cost if I wanted just speed. Thing is, i need the 4drs and the comfort plus the system too. I've not driven a 240 but been in one and it was quite sexy too. I've driven the SRT-4 neon and that is a fast ass lil car too. I've been around SHO for a while and been giving what I can on advice and such so that would account for my post count #'s. I really like to research my ish to the fullest before starting on a project because less money is spent er......wasted in this fashion. Actually gonna go suspension tech for the sway bars and also getting a ureathane bushing set as well. I've been in a 5gen lude and hated every minute of it, there's just not enough room for me in there. hahhahaah
DC I understand is overrated on some stuff and I take turns like.....well.........harder and faster than I should on my stock honda right now hahahaha. Once my credit rating gets somewhat good I am actually going to sell off or part out my 4th gen and then go take my tax return and some money saved up and go grab me an accord. Unless..................u got some better idea for a car. hehe I'll have to finance the rest of the car but I will have about 3-4k to drop on downpayment........and a 600-650 credit rating.

 

[IntegraXTR]

UltraMagneticAL, you seem rather arrogant. not to try to drill a mod er anything, going form 2.3 to 2.0 liters is not going to change anything except his low end, which is going to die off. you already discussed him driving a "boat", so he definitely doesnt need that. and how many rpm's do you expect him to turn? his rod to stroke ratio isnt really going to make a difference, especially in such a lo-po application. i would worry about rod/stroke until 700-800 hp. dohc...interesting. ever hear of a split pattern cam? i have one. its more agressive than any of your DOHC cam pairs. single cams can be very agressive as well, DOHC is just somewhat more efficient. please explain you DOHC "technical reasons"......im interested in them.

yes, all muscle car engines were single "underhead" cam patterns, except for the for sock motor. and there were some nasty ones.

oh, and two heads ARE better than one: as long as theyre each on top of 4 cylinders

ok, i don't freq. the accord forum but this one just caught my eye....question...not to drill a SHO member or anything, but for some reason i think your theories involve drag racing perhaps?

i'm guessing Al's theory is about track racing, keeping the revs high and not worrying about low end tq?

and if yer running a single cam, isn't the load pretty ruff?

the last time i heard of single "underhead" cam patterns is in motorcycle racing