[NyQuiL]

Hello all, Im looking at trying to find a integra type r. My plan was to have it boosted with a turbo kit. Ive heard of drag making kits, does anyone know any other companies making preformed kits?

and can anyone tell me how well it would respond/what else i would need to maintain it besides the kit? (ie fuel controllers,hondata,vafc?)

Sorry for the general question.

Thanks.

 

[HondaTegGSR]

you will have better gains slapping a turbo on a ls

 

[NyQuiL]

but i wanted a type r....heh

yeah ive heard people choose the ls engine for boosting, but type r is so sweet.

 

[HondaTegGSR]

type r's are sweet i had a chance to get one but passed it up, but i love my gs-r

R's are mainly for N/A cause of the higher compression and so on

 

[dug]

theres a guy running around here in a 400+hp ITR (daily driven), i believe he is using the drag kit....

 

[JDMFreak]

you can used a TYPE R motor but you gonna have to lower your COMP. RATIO like what HondaTegGSR said i think it also better for a LS,GSR or even a H22 turbo into a Civic or a TEG..

 

[NyQuiL]

i cant go to crazy on this car, im the plan was to get a type r, the acutal integra, no swaps no nothing, and try to find a turbo kit for it,

ive found drag kits for it, i was hoping someone with personal experiance would have responded.

This car also has to be a daily driver.

 

[MatT3T4]

You will actually have better numbers from the B18C5 than you will from the B18B or the B18C1. The higher compression is good, quicker spool, earlier power, etc. Retard the timing a bit, maybe purchase yourself an oil cooler, and you should be fine.

The only problem that turbo ITR's run into is the rods and pistons. Now, it's not the compression that is the problem with them, it is the lightweight construction. One trick for NA motors is lighter components. Now, as you can probably guess, the lighter the compound, the weaker it "probably" is, unless we are talking about expensive materials...not OEM Honda parts, of course. So, you will have a slightly higher chance of breaking something in an ITR.

Still though, go for it. You will enjoy it greatly. If, by chance, something does happen...if you rebuild it, keep the stock compression, don't lower it.

 

[NyQuiL]

good info thanks, people have been complainin to me left and right about having a high compressions car and wanting to turbo it.. but its good to hear someone actually tell me to go for it.

 

[MatT3T4]

Most people don't understand the dynamics of compression and boost. For a street car, compressionc an be very beneficial.

 

[dug]

Most people don't understand the dynamics of compression and boost. For a street car, compressionc an be very beneficial.

maybe for low boost applications, lower compression takes away some power, but it gives less chance of detonation, which IMO is more important, i know i said this before, lower compression only gives you a little more room to work with when tuning...

 

[MatT3T4]

maybe for low boost applications, lower compression takes away some power, but it gives less chance of detonation, which IMO is more important, i know i said this before, lower compression only gives you a little more room to work with when tuning...

You're absolutely right. However, there are plenty of alternatives to lowering compression...timing retard, methanol injection, aquamist type water injection, oil coolers, etc. In the end, it's up to the individual.

 

[dug]

We have a engine. It's a 2.0L, 4 valve per cylinder, 4 cylinder type with a 9.0 to 1 compression ratio and it's turbocharged. On the dyno, the motor puts out 200hp at 4psi boost with the timing at the stock setting of 35 degrees on 92 octane pump gas with an air/fuel ratio of 14 to 1. We retard the timing to 30 degrees and can now run 7psi and make 225hp before detonation occurs. Now we richen the mixture to 12 to 1 AFR and find we can get 8psi and 235 hp before detonation occurs. The last thing we can consider is to lower the compression ratio to 7 to1. Back on the dyno, we can now run 10psi with 33 degrees of timing with an AFR of 12 to 1 and we get 270 hp on the best pull.


From all of the changes made, we can deduce the effect certain changes on hp;

Retarding the ignition timing allows slightly more boost to be run and gain of 12.5%.

Richening the mixture allows slightly more boost to be run for a small hp gain however, past about 11.5 to 1 AFR most engines will start to lose power and even encounter rich misfire.

Lowering the compression ratio allows more boost to be run with less retard for a substantial hp gain.

Increasing the octane rating of the fuel has a massive effect on maximum obtainable hp.

We have seen that there are limits on what can be done running pump gas on an engine with a relatively high compression ratio. High compression engines are therefore poor candidates for high boost pressures on pump fuel. On high octane fuels, the compression ratio becomes relatively unimportant. Ultimate hp levels on high octane fuel are mainly determined by the physical strength of the engine. This was clearly demonstrated in the turbo Formula 1 era of a decade ago where 1.5L engines were producing up to 1100 hp at 60psi on a witches brew of aromatics. Most fully prepared street engines of this displacement would have trouble producing half of this power for a short time, even with many racing parts fitted.

Most factory turbocharged engines rely on a mix of relatively low compression ratios, mild boost and a dose of ignition retard under boost to avoid detonation. Power outputs on these engines are not stellar but these motors can usually be seriously thrashed without damage. Trying to exceed the factory outputs by any appreciable margins without higher octane fuel usually results in some type of engine failure. Remember, the factory spent many millions engineering a reasonable compromise in power, emissions, fuel economy and reliability for the readily available pump fuel. Despite what many people think, they probably don't know as much about this topic as the engineers do.

basically, when your going to be running on pump gas 91or92, theres more of a chance of detonation occuring, you can either
1:buy high octane fuel
2:lower compression
the first choice would get expensive, the second choice makes more sense, it doesn't rule detonation out completely, just gives you a better chance that its not going to happen, and detonation my friend is what kills engines.

 

[NyQuiL]

what else could i get to achive a lower compression on a itr without spending way to much, thicker head gasket?..and?

 

[MatT3T4]

We have seen that there are limits on what can be done running pump gas on an engine with a relatively high compression ratio. High compression engines are therefore poor candidates for high boost pressures on pump fuel.

And on the flipside, the lower boost plus higher compression equals the higher boost plus lower compression. It's where the whole effective compression comes in to play. There is no need to run really high boost, especially in street cars. The peak power evens out, the difference is in the middle of the powerband, and the one with higher compression usually has a more efficient one.

 

[MatT3T4]

As well, that article you posted is only "one way" to go about relieving detonation. Obviously, if they have to drop the compression to 7.0:1 to run a measly 8psi, they haven't done anything to the fuel system.

Fuel upgrades extend the amount of boost and/or compression you can run. So do ignition upgrades. On top of those standard upgrades, there are cooling measures. The detonation is being caused by heat. Water injection (although not my favorite), methanol injection, oil coolers, etc...can ALL stop detonation in it's tracks. But you have to ask yourself this...Which one will be more efficient? The doggedly low compression motor, or the higher compression motor? The low compression motor will have trouble even spooling the turbo, unless you launch at 8000rpm. The higher compression motor will feel good right off the line.

 

[dug]

it went on to talk about other methods of getting rid of detonation, but the topic here was compression, so i stuck with that. Sure if your going to be running low boost, just get your timing and fuel right, your set.
You have to consider though:
lower compression = small loss of power, but safer
normal compression = a little more power, but more of a risk of detonation

 

[MatT3T4]

I totally agree. The thing about Hondas, though, is the fact that the stock compression, which is what people usually refer to as "high" compression, really isn't all that high...and in reality, doesn't warrant the use of such drastic measures to remedy detonation. When I speak of the "high" compression, it is usually in regards to low compression motors...so I speak of the stock compression. Now, if we were bumping it up to 11.5:1 or so, then HELL yeah...gimme some methanol.

You are absolutely correct though, low compression is easier, overall, but makes less power pound for pound, and high compression takes more effort, but is more efficient.

 

[Defi4nce]

MatT3T4
what comp. where you running in your coupe? what was your max boost (track psi)?
I have a built b16 10:6:1 comp going turbo.
You have been there done that, so your in the know.

 

[uoboarder]

good info thanks, people have been complainin to me left and right about having a high compressions car and wanting to turbo it.. but its good to hear someone actually tell me to go for it.

Yeah...go for it. Please though for your own sake get a Hondata...and then have the car tuned on the Dyno with the Hondata. You'll have a killer ITR-T then!