[jimbojuicebox]

Hi... i have a b16a2 running a standard 6psi jackson racing setup plus jackson racing boost timing controller and high flow fuel pump. at the moment i am still using the "fuel enrichment relay" :-(... lol... so i am thinking about getting the JR MAP controller.
i understand this replaces the fuel enrichment relay as it should map more fuel as it reads an increase in boost?
is this correct?
also... will this be sufficient for the moment or should i also get bigger injectors with the MAP controller?

my other option was an Apexi S-AFC... which would be better?

 

[AcidLotus]

Yep, the map controller replaces the fuel enrichment relay. It is a night and day difference! You will not need bigger injectors with the map controller - in fact, it would probably be better to stay with the stock injectors for that setup.

I've never really been a big fan of the S-AFC in conjunction with bigger injectors - Sure people get away with it, but it just does not seem very reliable to me, and more of a hack way of doing things. If you were going to spend the money on bigger injectors, I'd do it with a tuneable ECU and a program such as hondata or uber or chrome.

But quite honestly, if you plan to stay at 6 PSI, or even 8, and you don't have any other plans and you want a reliable setup that works great all the time, the map controller is a fine idea that works exceptionally well.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

thanks for the reply...
ok i preferred the idea of the MAP controller anyway.
at the moment i will stick with 6psi.. but at some point i will definitely go to 8psi. so you think stock injectors will be able to cope with this?

also... the fmu... lol... i have it installed obviously but will this still be needed with the MAP controller?
thanks again.

 

[AcidLotus]

Stock injectors will hold to 10 PSI, but you start really pushing your luck in that territory. 8 should be fine.

As for the FMU, it's a crappy thing, but is still necessary with the JR Map Controller. The thing I really don't like about the JR unit is that it boost the fuel pressure 5 lbs for every pound of boost. You start running the injectors too hard at that rate. The cartech FMU is the way to go if you continue down the JR Map controller / FMU road, as the Cartech has an adjustable rise rate. I had mine at about 2.6:1 and my A/F ratios were spot on throughout the entire RPM range. I don't know what those are selling for now, but I got mine new from Jim Helbing at Motorvations Motorsports back in the day - his number is in one of the stickies in here. They might be for sale on ebay as well. From experience, the map controller and cartech work great together.

But, if you really want to ditch the FMU, leave the JR map controller out of the equation as well, and go with the ECU upgrade and some larger injectors. They both accomplish the same thing, just in different ways really. Either way, tuning is recommended on a dyno.

 

[daveb91]

Eh I dont know every setup is different But I had the JR FMU which is 5:1 at 8 psi until I datalogged it and showed rich and lean all over the place that when I decided to take out the stock injectors and upgrade to 450s and a chipped ECU. I just didnt like the fuel pressure the FMU caused which is hard in the pump and injectors.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

yeah.. i think for the moment i will stick with the map controller / fmu system. but think i will upgrade fmu to a better design. if i cant find cartech, vortech do quite a few varying types of fmu.. maybe one of these?

i have a 260lph fuel pump so that should cope easy.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

also... AcidLotus... you mention youhad your fmu running around 2.6:1... most the fmu's i can find vary between 4-12:1...?
and on my travels i came across this - what are your thoughts? it says bypass the fmu?
eBay Motors: HONDA ACURA 4 BAR MAP SENSOR MISSING LINK BYPASS FMU (item 250362372092 end time Jan-30-09 17:05:05 PST)

 

[AcidLotus]

Yep, the upgraded fuel pump will at least be able to supply the injectors well enough, then it's up to the injectors to pump it through. If I recall correctly, the Vortech makes you buy these "pills" to adjust the rise rate. With the cartech, it's a simple turn of a thumb screw. The cartech is adjustable from 1.1:1 to 10:1. Here's one of many links about it: Lightning Motorsports - Bell Engineering / Cartech Adjustable FMU - 2025

And as for the ebay link, it suggests getting a tuneable ECU. The stock map sensor can see boost up to 2 bar, if I recall correctly, and the JR map controller has with it a mounting block and vacuum line so that the map controller actually does see boost, then the signal is modified by the JR map controller prior to being received by the ECU. Essentially, the product in the ebay link is unnecessary.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

thanks again. by the sounds of it that ebay link is pointless then... as no honda is likely to be running 2 bar boost let alone 4??
ok... so plan of action as it stands will be to get a JR MAP controller and a decent adjustable FMU.
should sort me out for time being and i guess when i get the 8psi pulley i shouldnt need to change anything as the map controller will continue to map more fuel up to the 8psi increase? but by then the injectors will be near their limit surely. aren't standard like 240cc?

 

[AcidLotus]

Yep, 240cc. They should be fine. I've had three different friends running B16a2's at 10 PSI on stock injectors with the JR FMUs reliably for years - obviously the cartech is the better FMU though so that you're not stuck at a 5:1 rise ratio if you can (and likely will) get away with something lower, like 3.5:1 for example.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

is the JR MAP controller compatible with map sensors that arent mounted on the throttle body? my sensor is mounted up near the fuel filter and has a vacuum tube from throttle body to it... am i still going to be able to use the JR map controller?

 

[AcidLotus]

It should still work, just that it won't likely mount where JR intended it to be on top of the throttle body. In fact, you'd probably just move the vacuum hose from the TB to the intake manifold so that it also sees boost, then just put a plug on the vacuum port on the TB.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

yeah... my main concern is how will i attach the vacuum hose to the JR map controller? as by the looks of it i think its meant to be seated and sealed with an 'o' ring.... so nowhere to attach a hose?

also... wouldnt moving the hose from throttle body to manifold change the reading? as one is before the supercharger and one is after?

 

[AcidLotus]

Yep, it does change the reading, and the map controller reads the boost and modifies the signal that the stock ECU sees, thus increasing fuel pressure prior to tip-in. The map controller comes with a piece that sits between the map sensor and the throttle body, and comes with longer screws. What you could do, however, is find some nuts and put them on the ends of the screws such that your map sensor is bolted to the piece that comes with it. This piece also has a vacuum hose nipple for connecting it to the manifold. Essentially this piece is designed to block off the stock TB hold for the MAP, so that it gets is vac/boost readings via hose from the manifold. Then the controller modifies the map signal it receives before presenting it to the ECU.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

aaaaaaaaaaaah... thats what i wanted to hear! thanks. so i can block off the vacuum point on the throttle body i have now, t-tap into one of the vacuum hoses on the intake manifold and mount the actual MAP controller anywhere then?

 

[AcidLotus]

aaaaaaaaaaaah... thats what i wanted to hear! thanks. so i can block off the vacuum point on the throttle body i have now, t-tap into one of the vacuum hoses on the intake manifold and mount the actual MAP controller anywhere then?

Sounds about right to me... Now that I think about it, I think I remember someone in a similar situation as you and they took a piece of scrap aluminum or something and fashioned an oval disk with two screw holes to block of the TB port. Just make sure you have the o-ring down there.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

yeah... well i wont have to do that as i dont have the TB port. just a normal vacuum hose nipple. so i can just put a cap on it. i was just concerned before as i thought it might still be reading through the stock TB port. didnt realise it was reading from manifold vacuum.
hopefully get this sorted soon!
then its on to an adjustable FMU... as i can tell im running very rich with the JR 5:1 fmu.

 

[AcidLotus]

Rich is safe in the eyes of JR and their FMU... helps prevent lawsuits, unhappy customers, etc. For me, it was WAY too rich.

 

[jimbojuicebox]

i guess so... better than overheating and melting everything! lol
its ok if i accelerate steadily... but especially in 2nd if i plant it then around 4-5k it really chucks a lot of fuel in to the point where i get a little blue/white smoke out the back! then its fine all the way to 8.5k, and in 3rd 4th and 5th its not as bad at all - i guess cos the engine isnt revving up as quickly in those gears.

 

[daveb91]

I dont see the point of running a fmu a btc and a map controller. Its not much to get dsm 450 and a chipped ecu...... I run stock fuel pressure and the 450cc and chipped ecu and dont worry about running lean and rich. Get it done right once. FMU is just a guessing game it wont be right in the full rpm range. 450s cost maybe $50 chipping ecu and basetune $50 so either you can get a quick tune off the basetune or do it yourself youll have what $200 in it and it will be right throughout the rpm range.