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mugen is better AND its yummy JDM
www.hondata.comep3 said:What do you guys recommend to tune my CTR with the k20 engine?
No need for the Mugen intake. Just get an AEM cold air.
the mugen airbox will generate better gains throughout the entire powerband while the AEM CAI will make the bulk of its power up top.......
Both the AEM CAI and Injen CAI make good power from 4,000 rpms to redline, and the bulk of it from 4,000 to right around 5,200 rpms.
Whenever the Mugen airbox becomes available (it isn't for a left hand drive RSX yet), it's sure to be stupidly expensive. Not worth it, considering the gains aren't likely to be much better than the ones already on the market. For the amount of money they're sure to be charging, you could afford an AEM & a Hondata reflash, and have gains totally superior to that of the Mugen airbox alone.
p.s. Could you do something about your sig? It's really big.
Whenever the Mugen airbox becomes available (it isn't for a left hand drive RSX yet), it's sure to be stupidly expensive. Not worth it, considering the gains aren't likely to be much better than the ones already on the market. For the amount of money they're sure to be charging, you could afford an AEM & a Hondata reflash, and have gains totally superior to that of the Mugen airbox alone.
p.s. Could you do something about your sig? It's really big.
about the sig....no, and as for the intake.....think about it....honda has a guy that sits in a little dark room under their building and develops the airbox.....and open airbox takes away bottom end power weather it is a CAI or a short ram....the mugen airbox is the best of both worlds......it draws in cold air like the stock SEALED airbox and it has the power that a short ram/CAI would have, AND with an AEM CAI or Injen CAI a whole lot of engine heat is transferred into the intake tube due the the fact that they are metal rather then rubber or plastic, which defeats the purpose of a CAI.....
Please look at some dyno charts before saying things like that.CRXtc said:and open airbox takes away bottom end power weather it is a CAI or a short ram....
I'm not saying it's a bad design. I'm saying it's not worth it for the price Mugen is sure to charge. If you want that sort of design, wait for Comptech to release their icebox. It'll be a quarter of the price, and work the exact same way. And Comptech is likely to have theirs available before Mugen does.the mugen airbox is the best of both worlds......it draws in cold air like the stock SEALED airbox and it has the power that a short ram/CAI would have, AND with an AEM CAI or Injen CAI a whole lot of engine heat is transferred into the intake tube due the the fact that they are metal rather then rubber or plastic, which defeats the purpose of a CAI.....
Maybe it's just me, but if someone asks what would be good modifications for their engine, I find the better recommendations are ones that you can actually buy.
the mugen box is available now for my car - rhd ep3.
a CAI does add SOME bottom end power however it hurts bottom end performance more then it helps it....open air elements are made strictly for high RPM operation not for low RPM operation while the stock airbox is made to make power throughout the entire powerband.......all of the dyno charts will show you that the HP gains advertised are at the peak of the powerband, not throughout it...i have witnessed many dyno runs, done many different mods to my car and other cars, and i can tell you that when i swapped out my intake for a stock airbox/intake tube with a K&N drop in filter my car pulls A LOT HARDER on the freeway and the bottom end doesn't suffer from the open air short ram intake....and as for price, well some people can afford MUGEN, and if you can afford it by all means get it, if they made a mugen airbox for my car i know i would buy it....
Ah, didn't realize yours was right-hand drive. In that case, if you want to spend the $700 on the Mugen airbox which noone has any dynos results for, go for it.ep3 said:the mugen box is available now for my car - rhd ep3.
Personally, I'd spend $150 on an already proven cold-air intake, and $595 on the new Hondata ECU flash and kick the Mugen's ass. Either that or wait for Comptech's icebox which will cost roughly the same as the current CAI's.
CRXtc, look at any of the numerous dyno charts of intakes over on clubRSX. In not a single one does power drop in the low-rpm range. The length of the intake tube simply affects where the surge in power occurs due to intake resonance. Combined with the 5,200 rpm VTEC crossover available in the Hondata re-flash, the longer cold-air intakes are the best (only. . . .) option.
Air boxes are going to be the most restrictive they are the ones that hurt power the most, they are designed to starve the engine of max air flow so that the engine will meet emissions better.CRXtc said:a CAI does add SOME bottom end power however it hurts bottom end performance more then it helps it....open air elements are made strictly for high RPM operation not for low RPM operation while the stock airbox is made to make power throughout the entire powerband.......all of the dyno charts will show you that the HP gains advertised are at the peak of the powerband, not throughout it...i have witnessed many dyno runs, done many different mods to my car and other cars, and i can tell you that when i swapped out my intake for a stock airbox/intake tube with a K&N drop in filter my car pulls A LOT HARDER on the freeway and the bottom end doesn't suffer from the open air short ram intake....and as for price, well some people can afford MUGEN, and if you can afford it by all means get it, if they made a mugen airbox for my car i know i would buy it....
CAI’s make more power over an air box whether it be peak or full depends on whether or not you upgrade you FULL intake system, it also has a lot to do with piping diameter and length, as these 2 effect air velocity.
Over all point is that the intake is a system and you have to upgrade it all to see the full gains of one part.
AEM CAI
the AEM CAI was the first thing I bolted onto my type-S and it does make a difference you can feel. the problem is, all the juice is top end in the K20. I read the intake test in the new Honda Tuning and the AEM CAI dyno'd 20 extra horses on a type-S but only 5.7 lb/ft of torque. if you want juice, you want torque. horsepower looks nice on paper, but torque is what makes the car go and the K20 doesn't have much of it in stock form. For a while I was running a DC header into the stock exhaust and the header and CAI alone made it feel a lot ballsier. Honda Tuning also said that the reduction in air temperature "more than offset" the lower flow rate in comparison to other short ram intakes. cold air is denser and therefore more oxygen rich. You can suck in twice as much hot engine-compartment air and still not get the oxygen as a restrictive intake breathing cool air from outside.
the AEM CAI was the first thing I bolted onto my type-S and it does make a difference you can feel. the problem is, all the juice is top end in the K20. I read the intake test in the new Honda Tuning and the AEM CAI dyno'd 20 extra horses on a type-S but only 5.7 lb/ft of torque. if you want juice, you want torque. horsepower looks nice on paper, but torque is what makes the car go and the K20 doesn't have much of it in stock form. For a while I was running a DC header into the stock exhaust and the header and CAI alone made it feel a lot ballsier. Honda Tuning also said that the reduction in air temperature "more than offset" the lower flow rate in comparison to other short ram intakes. cold air is denser and therefore more oxygen rich. You can suck in twice as much hot engine-compartment air and still not get the oxygen as a restrictive intake breathing cool air from outside.
i do believe that proves my point
EVO 7?
how much for the Evo VII? and what the fuck are you doing in a CRX if you got Evo loot?
how much for the Evo VII? and what the fuck are you doing in a CRX if you got Evo loot?
45K us......and there is nothing wrong with a CRX
hmm... so the stock box makes better bottom end. but starves the motor up to. i don't know about you, but i would give up some low end to have more up top, where i plan to be making more power and doing most of my driving.
the mugen box isn't a bad way to go, but it's expensive. a good cai is the best of both worlds, as it gives respectable power, and great power up top compared to a box upgrade. and it's cheaper.
about the power thing... aftermarket companies show the peak improvement, not necessarily the gain over the peak power, b/c that may not be that much of a gain...
their gains are the max gain on the power band, not necessarily the gain on the max power.
the mugen box isn't a bad way to go, but it's expensive. a good cai is the best of both worlds, as it gives respectable power, and great power up top compared to a box upgrade. and it's cheaper.
about the power thing... aftermarket companies show the peak improvement, not necessarily the gain over the peak power, b/c that may not be that much of a gain...
their gains are the max gain on the power band, not necessarily the gain on the max power.
the mugen airbox makes power through the ENTIRE power band....just not as much peak power as a CAI
i guess i'll have to check out some dyno sheets to compare the actual curve...
also...
i'll refer to AEM's site and their dyno sheets...
they have alot of sheets online, i'm not sure about the validity of the "stock" curve, but most of their CAI curves have more power overall as well...
ok... on the rsx type s, the curve is all above the stock red curve.
http://aempower.com/application/induction_application.htm
follow the link and click on the little red thingy by the cai for the type s...
(not sure if this link will work, if you have adobe acrobat...)
http://aempower.com/pdf/results/21-506 2002 Acura RSX Type-S CAS.pdf
i'll refer to AEM's site and their dyno sheets...
they have alot of sheets online, i'm not sure about the validity of the "stock" curve, but most of their CAI curves have more power overall as well...
ok... on the rsx type s, the curve is all above the stock red curve.
http://aempower.com/application/induction_application.htm
follow the link and click on the little red thingy by the cai for the type s...
(not sure if this link will work, if you have adobe acrobat...)
http://aempower.com/pdf/results/21-506 2002 Acura RSX Type-S CAS.pdf
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