[Civic_Grl_Rcr]

So why not? What's the big deal?

Does it cause corrosion quicker or some chemical reaction if you use two different brands?

 

[KustomPrelude]

i really dont see the big deal either.

 

[Slopoke]

Ive mixed diff brands of anti-freeze tons of times. No problems yet.

 

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Honda juice contains no borates or silicates, plus it contains detergent that keeps the cooling passages clean[er].

So, what does that mean? If you put regular anti-freeze in your ride, or mix it with Honda juice, your cooling system will start leaking and seeping due to erosion of gaskets, mating surfaces and so forth.

No big deal! You'll just end up with a leaker...

 

[Civic_Grl_Rcr]

How did I know this thread would draw in BDC

 

[Nexus242]

How did I know this thread would draw in BDC

I can't imagine Prestone, Zerex or Peak would cause erosion of your inner gaskets even if they are Honda gaskets. Just stick with a top name brand and you should be alright with no leaks.

 

[koatic]

hummm.....
I have been using water and flushing it thoroughly every week.. seems to run fine.. At the track you are supposed to run water anyway because of the track rules about spilling antifreeze/coolant on the track if you wreck..

 

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

I can't imagine Prestone, Zerex or Peak would cause erosion of your inner gaskets even if they are Honda gaskets. Just stick with a top name brand and you should be alright with no leaks.

I cannot help it if you have a lack of imagination, Nexus. Besides anybody into debating knows this playground ploy to be the "argumentum ad ignoratiam" or "appeal to ignorance" fallacy, e.g. Nexus242 can't imagine something is true, therefore it must be false. Please!!!

Let's play fair. I'll provide you with evidence and you dispute it. That way you can't plead ignorance or lack of imagination...

SOURCE: Any Honda Dealer Web Site

Why must I use Honda-brand antifreeze/coolant in my engine/radiator?

• Most coolants labeled safe for aluminum engines actually aren't. The silicates and/or borates added to most coolants act as abrasives on the cooling systems.
  
• Honda's formulation for coolant does not use silicates or borates to enhance the corrosion protection for aluminum components. Instead, Genuine Honda antifreeze/coolant uses a proprietary organic corrosion inhibitor.
  
• The advantages of the Honda coolant are clear. Its ability to inhibit corrosion and the absence of silicates makes it the only coolant recommended for your Honda.
  
• If Genuine Honda antifreeze/coolant is not available, you may use another major-brand non-silicate coolant as a temporary replacement. Make sure it is a high-quality coolant recommended for aluminum engines.
  
• However, continued use of any non-Honda coolant may result in corrosion, causing the cooling system to malfunction or fail. Have the cooling system flushed and refilled with Honda antifreeze/coolant as soon as possible.

And, of course, here's the infamous Honda Corp letter written to its' Honda and Acura dealers:

Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go

Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.

To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality coolant that has several advantages over the competition.

Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be compatible with Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant, have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic coolants can cause these problems:

• Silicates bond to the surface of the water pump seal and act as an abrasive, causing considerable seal erosion and coolant leakage.
  
• In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused early leakage. This leakage increased dramatically until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost.
  
• In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through the duration of the test.

There was a chart here, entitled "Coolant Leakage from Water Pump Seal", showing Leaked Coolant Volume in ml as follows for each test duration in Hours. This is the text:

Time
Honda Coolant volume leaked
Typical Silicated Coolant volume leaked

24 hours
0 ml
21 ml

48 hours
1 ml
36 ml

72 hours
2 ml
47 ml

96 hours
2 ml
55 ml

120 hours
2.5 ml
56 ml

144 hours
3.5 ml
57 ml

168 hours
4 ml
58.8 ml

192 hours
6 ml
63 ml

200 hours
6 ml
64 ml

• Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating.
  
• Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head.
  
• Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.

Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term durability of the combination was not tested.

In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:

• No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.
  
• (graphs here, showing roughness across the surface, with A a very wiggly line, and B a very smooth line)
  
• No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.
  
• Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.
  
• Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).

You can find less expensive coolants on the market, but now you can see why genuine Honda coolant is the only coolant approved for Honda and Acura vehicles (it MUST be used for warranty repairs). Honda's non-silicate formula delivers added protection not offered by 95 percent of other brands. Since our customers expect lower maintenance, you're doing them an injustice if you use any other coolant.

Okay, dispute away, bro...

 

[Biff]

Well Duh!

As if Honda is gonna say to use anything OTHER than geniune Honda stuff.

Those tests are comparing Honda coolant vs. non-OEM silicated coolant. Further Duh, if you buy coolant with silicates, then yes, you're asking for trouble down the road. If you buy coolant that clearly says on the front "Silicate Free, Safe for aluminum engines" (which I have seen), you're just fine. Otherwise it would be false labelling which, (in Canada anyway) is illegal.

Show us, if you would BDC a test which compares Honda coolant vs. silicate free coolant.

Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be compatible with Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant, have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic coolants can cause these problems: . . .

Again, don't buy the shit with silicates.

Those claims are typical of Honda. Use Honda Engine Oil....Use Honda transmission oil.....Use Honda coolant......Use Honda this, use Honda that.

BAH I say.

 

[sKzoFrENiX]

Touche'

 

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Oh, good; a Honda cooling system expert!

...if you buy coolant with silicates, then yes, you're asking for trouble down the road. If you buy coolant that clearly says on the front "Silicate Free, Safe for aluminum engines" (which I have seen), you're just fine...

CGR was asking if it's okay to MIX different brands of anti-freeze. For instance, let's say her husband doesn't want to pay $4.00/quart for Honda coolant. We all know that silicates and borates are out of the question in ANY Jap car; everyone except Nexus.

Can they mix Honda antifreeze safely with coolants containing nitrates, nitrites, phosphates or amines?

Is it okay for them to just add a little extended-life, non-silicate, aluminum-safe Texaco Havoline Dex-Cool [a popular HP coolant replacement which contains carboxylate additives] to the Honda juice, or should they completely flush the system first?

How about mixing non-toxic, non-silicate, non-ethylene glycol, aluminum-safe antifreeze with Honda antifreeze? You know, the stuff that is propylene glycol based; the ones that are safe for your pets and your kids as well as your sh!tbox...

I would like to hear your opinion on mixing different antifreezes, which is the topic of this thread, instead of just stating the obvious.

Also, Spiff, what do you run in your car? I know you're not dumb enough to listen to those stupid Honda engineers and R&D guys. They don't know jack about CiViC's!

Whatever you use, I'd be willing to bet you can buy it at Wal-Mart...

 

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

...Because Honda is more concentrating. The other manufactures of Anti-Freeze have to make it for a lot of different vehicles...

Yes, thank you! I think the better word would have been 'focused', but they should get your drift...

When you buy generic antifreeze, it HAS to be able to mix with ALL other brands and types of coolants without causing any damage to various types of cooling systems. Why???

Ppl are lazy and stupid. Most ppl will never change their coolant the whole time they own their vehicle. When the overflow bottle gets empty, they go to Wal-Mart and buy the cheapest thing they can find. Then they go out in the parking lot and put it in. The rest of the bottle sits in their trunk, or in their garage for a year or two, or until the tank runs dry again.

So, what are the two most important properties for any 'generic' antifreeze? They must have an extended shelf-life and they must be able to mix with all other brands and types of antifreeze.

Good point, bro! I touched on this a few messages back, but really didn't develop it properly...

 

[shorthand]

How did I know this thread would draw in BDC

By the way, congrats on the coming addition to your family.

I do have to ask, what is it about BDC and fluids? How does he come to know all of this? I move that we should rename him "Der Fluessigmeister". If there is a second to the motion, I will post a poll (grin).

 

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

I do have to ask, what is it about BDC and fluids? How does he come to know all of this? I move that we should rename him "Der Fluessigmeister". If there is a second to the motion, I will post a poll (grin).

Your motion is out of order. Sit down!

Actually, I'm rather partial to Der Uberman. That wouldn't be too bad...