I was talking to this guy about his car today and we wen tfor a ride. It was a 95 hatch i think and had a b16a swap. Now all he had done to it was put headers on it and a uni muffler. That thing pulled pretty hard. He told me that the header boosted it up like 20 ponies!!!! But it cost him like $2500 Can. Now is thsi guy full os crap or is this header add that much???
Mugen Header
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some headers can add that much, i don tknow about hat one thogh
ppl sayihng that comptech headers for the accord adds like 20=+hp
ppl sayihng that comptech headers for the accord adds like 20=+hp
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276 Posts
the mugen header isn't the greatest....I would try to get the Hytech or Toda header if your going to put down major coin on a header....otherwise JDM DC 4-1 seems to be a good bang for the buck...or the JDM ITR header.
yeah ... it COULD be that much .... depending on where he got it.
it's about $800 USD listed at Kings. So do the conversion with a conservative 1.6 .... and that's already $1300. Add the brokerage which usually comes out to around 20% ... and that's around $1560, then you have our good ol Canadian taxes .. and if you're in Ontario that means another 15% ... so that brings the total close to $1800. Then you still have shipping... a good 50-80 bucks depending on method and provider ..... that's already close to $1900 ..... and then there's the retailer's mark up (trust me, there isn't much money to be made for dealers who want to make $$ off the Mugen dealer price .....)
As for it making 20 ponies ..... only dyno can prove that.
But! In the great header comparrison done with a Type R, they tested various headers .... Mugen, Toda, Jun, Spoon, JDM 4-1, DC JDM 4-1, Type One, and I'm not 100% sure if they used the Hytech headers or not. (not sure if Maxim Works was used either)
From what I remember (not including the Hytech), Spoon out performed most of them ..... Type One finished a close second. However, one thing shown was that the JDM 4-1, and DC JDM 4-1 wasn't far behind the "big" name companies ..... 2-4 whp max difference ......
Type One is kinda new on the scene .... from what I know, they are the "plant/factory" involved with making the headers for Spoon and Toda. They, just like Maxim Works did with Mugen, made their own header through the knowledge gained from making headers for the bigger Japanese companies ..... and surprisingly it did very well. However, don't be fooled with the b16 version of the header .... unlike the JDM ITR application which comes with the standard JDM 2.5 collector ... botht the Maxim Works and Type One application for b16's are 2.25 collectors. Unfortunately, I don't have any info on its performance #'s.
IMO ... if you're really willing to spend close to $2000 on a header .... call Endyn ... or call SMSP (Dave) and get them to make you a custom header for your set up ...... well worth the money .... and Dave's a nice guy (he's down in Charlotte ....)
for those of you who know of these guys, you know about their products.... top notch!
it's about $800 USD listed at Kings. So do the conversion with a conservative 1.6 .... and that's already $1300. Add the brokerage which usually comes out to around 20% ... and that's around $1560, then you have our good ol Canadian taxes .. and if you're in Ontario that means another 15% ... so that brings the total close to $1800. Then you still have shipping... a good 50-80 bucks depending on method and provider ..... that's already close to $1900 ..... and then there's the retailer's mark up (trust me, there isn't much money to be made for dealers who want to make $$ off the Mugen dealer price .....)
As for it making 20 ponies ..... only dyno can prove that.
But! In the great header comparrison done with a Type R, they tested various headers .... Mugen, Toda, Jun, Spoon, JDM 4-1, DC JDM 4-1, Type One, and I'm not 100% sure if they used the Hytech headers or not. (not sure if Maxim Works was used either)
From what I remember (not including the Hytech), Spoon out performed most of them ..... Type One finished a close second. However, one thing shown was that the JDM 4-1, and DC JDM 4-1 wasn't far behind the "big" name companies ..... 2-4 whp max difference ......
Type One is kinda new on the scene .... from what I know, they are the "plant/factory" involved with making the headers for Spoon and Toda. They, just like Maxim Works did with Mugen, made their own header through the knowledge gained from making headers for the bigger Japanese companies ..... and surprisingly it did very well. However, don't be fooled with the b16 version of the header .... unlike the JDM ITR application which comes with the standard JDM 2.5 collector ... botht the Maxim Works and Type One application for b16's are 2.25 collectors. Unfortunately, I don't have any info on its performance #'s.
IMO ... if you're really willing to spend close to $2000 on a header .... call Endyn ... or call SMSP (Dave) and get them to make you a custom header for your set up ...... well worth the money .... and Dave's a nice guy (he's down in Charlotte ....)
for those of you who know of these guys, you know about their products.... top notch!
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A lot of people get heated over the Hytech/SMSP header comparison. The way I see it is Hytech has been doing R&D on headers for almost 20 years. SMSP is sort of a newbie to the scene. Don't get me wrong, they are the two best available but they do cost almost as much as I paid for my entire car.....I mean the difference between a $300 DC header and a $1500 hytech or SMSP header is a meager 5-8hp. Unless your hardcore and ballin' then I doubt anybody would go for the higher priced item.
Me, I would get the JDM ITR header....may not be the most perf oriented, but it's oem quality and I'll have it for 10 years if need be.
Me, I would get the JDM ITR header....may not be the most perf oriented, but it's oem quality and I'll have it for 10 years if need be.
I agree with Madtown. I highly, highly doubt he gained 20 hp, especially in a "stock motor"/swap. Maybe if he has a MUGEN sticker somewhere on his car that helped get the 20 hp. Like you guys said, Hytech is a custom header and will give you very nice hp gains. Most people who purchase a custom Hytech header are building very high performance/race motors. SMSP is also very good, and a bit more affordable. The OEM JDM and DC JDM will give you great gains and good bang for your buck. Madtown, is the OEM JDM header very heavy?? It looks like a tank.. I want it for OEM quality, but don't wanna a heavy ass header.. Thanks..
Like you guys said, Hytech is a custom header and will give you very nice hp gains. Most people who purchase a custom Hytech header are building very high performance/race motors. SMSP is also very good, and a bit more affordable. The OEM JDM and DC JDM will give you great gains and good bang for your buck. Madtown, is the OEM JDM header very heavy?? It looks like a tank.. I want it for OEM quality, but don't wanna a heavy ass header.. Thanks..totally agreed that the Hytech and SMSP headers are for the more hardcore performance guys ..... but ultimately ... when you wanna say best ..... these two may be it .....
As for affordability .... JDM 4-1 is without a doubt one of the best bang for your buck choices ......
As for DC ... just for my cars, I wouldn't ever touch it ..... and I'll leave it at that.
But seriously, look into the Type One header ...... its only slightly more expensive than the JDM 4-1 .... and its numbers are definately better ...... in my book, the JDM 4-1 WAS the best bang for the buck .... and right now the Type One header (b18 header ... ) is my choice for best bang for your buck ....
As for affordability .... JDM 4-1 is without a doubt one of the best bang for your buck choices ......
As for DC ... just for my cars, I wouldn't ever touch it ..... and I'll leave it at that.
But seriously, look into the Type One header ...... its only slightly more expensive than the JDM 4-1 .... and its numbers are definately better ...... in my book, the JDM 4-1 WAS the best bang for the buck .... and right now the Type One header (b18 header ... ) is my choice for best bang for your buck ....
I read an article once that put the Mugen header on the top for HP gains when tested against all of the other brands. These gains were all made in the very upper end of the powerband though and the car actually lost some of that "all important street driving" low and mid-range. Header choice needs to be made based on driving style. If you are going to be on the track all day, the Mugen (although the most expensive should not have been over $1000) might be the way to go. The rest of us that drive in the real world would probably be better with something else. Love my DC.
UCRaccordV6 said:
You are comparing a V-6 to the I-4 which is no comparisson. 20HP from a header is a big stretch for a V-6, for an I-4 I'd say it's nearly impossible. Rather the only way I would believe it is to see the dyno for myself.
Adding I/H/E only adds modest gains overall. I'd say on a good day, with all three, you'd be lucky to get 6 to 8 HP on a stock engine.
One thing a lot people don't realize is that just bolting something onto your engine doesn't automatically give you the gains you are "guaranteed" to get for the advertisement. You could bolt on a header and intake that don't work well with each other and end up losing more power than you had with the stock setup. Or one could offset the other and no gains are achieved at all. That is why in magazines like SCC they always baseline dyno the car first and then start adding mods and dynoing after each mod.
Dyno tuning is the only way you can truely achieve any real gains.
$2500 for a header, that guy must be nuts. For not a lot more he could have bought a turbo charger and actually had something to brag about.
Very true Maniac. "Bolt-ons" like I/H/E add minimal gains. Anywhere from 6 to max 15 hp depending on what you have. Ex. Comptech combo. etc.. The good thing is if you are Staying All Motor the I/H/E combo will be good for your motor mods down the road. Your car will be breathing much better. I guess if you have a highly modified motor, a custom header like Hytech with anti-reversion chambers and tailor made for your specific application, will yield some very nice gains, but at a cost.. If I had the money, Shit, I'd do it..
IMO, no such thing.
Really depends what you want to do with your car.
If the b18 Type One header does in fact perform like it did in the great header comparrison ..... I'd pick that. (However, I've seen the quality ... and for me, I'd still pay the extra for the Spoon)
Really depends what you want to do with your car.
If the b18 Type One header does in fact perform like it did in the great header comparrison ..... I'd pick that. (However, I've seen the quality ... and for me, I'd still pay the extra for the Spoon
)well actually ... I didHCSiR said:IMO, no such thing.
Really depends what you want to do with your car.
If the b18 Type One header does in fact perform like it did in the great header comparrison ..... I'd pick that. (However, I've seen the quality ... and for me, I'd still pay the extra for the Spoon
BennySiR said:
check out this site for all kinds of MUGEN goodies/pricing: www.kingmotorsports.com
peace
MR2KSi said:Very true Maniac. "Bolt-ons" like I/H/E add minimal gains. Anywhere from 6 to max 15 hp depending on what you have. Ex. Comptech combo. etc.. The good thing is if you are Staying All Motor the I/H/E combo will be good for your motor mods down the road. Your car will be breathing much better. I guess if you have a highly modified motor, a custom header like Hytech with anti-reversion chambers and tailor made for your specific application, will yield some very nice gains, but at a cost.. If I had the money, Shit, I'd do it..
I'd agree with that. 15 HP is a stretch but it could be possible.
Benny, unless you plan on doing more work than just bolt-on it's really hard to justify the cost of these mods. On a stock engine the gains are very low per dollar spent. If you had forced induction of some sort or built-up internals then I think you'd get much more bang for your buck by adding I/H/E/. My experience is that there was no way I could justify the cost of these mods spending CDN money.
$300 to $400+ for an Intake. No thanks, I don't need the extra 3 or 4 HP that badly.
I have hummed and hawed about what I really want to do with my car. I've looked at many mods over the last couple of years and to be honest the only thing that really appeals to me is Forced Induction. It would be only mod that would make doing I/H/E all worth the expense.MR2KSi said:
I still want my car driveable year round so I'd either go JRSC or with about a 7PSI turbo setup. I spent lots of dough on this car, with the extra warranty and stuff when I bought it new. In Canada, with all the taxes and warranty my car was about $28,000 when it was all said and done.
So until my warranty lapses I can't see myself doing much. Until then I will plan. I sure love my SiR though, it's the best car I've ever owned and I love driving it everytime I get behind the wheel.
I think the mods you have picked are good ones, with a stock engine you just might not see the gaines you are hoping for. Keep us posted on any that you do get and what you opinions are before and after.
Cool man. With the basic I/H/E I don't expect a real lot. IMO though, with Just AEM CAI and APEXi N1 catback, my car feels better than when stock. I know it is very little modding, but car seems to pull a little harder. Also, my short shifter makes shifting even more fun. I guess the sound of the N1 and AEM has psychological effects too. LOL.. I love the All Motor setups. There's something about an All Motor Honda revving to 9k RPM that gets me goin.. I too have the extended warranty. Now looking back, I wonder if it was really needed. Be safe man.
Looking backon the warrantee thing...I should have just stayed with the normal not extended warrantee. Its makes more sense. But hind sight is 20/20 right. I bought it before I knew there were so many cool things you could do to a civic. But hey live and learn. I 'd like to get a turbo....but not right now. Wait for the warrantee to run down a little. Maybe next year Thansk guys
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